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| Skateboard History (385 Posts)
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vernon valley nj
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On 7/24/2009 mikey
wrote in from
United States
(66.65.nnn.nnn)
thats my brother danny skating, thats me in the foreground vernon valley ' 77
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Rocky Mountain Surf
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On 7/14/2009
Dave
wrote in from
United States
(76.186.nnn.nnn)
Wow what great memories. Sean was my age. Arnie and Robert were both older. Arnie managed the park when it was really hopping. He was at the top of his game. He saw Alan Gelfands picture in a magazine and went outside and started practicing. He had it in about a day. Two maybe three sessions tops in the front end of the first bowl. Then over to the half pipe and, boom up he went. Big balls for that era. He was the best at the time where he was for sure. Arnie was alway really encouraging to those around him. Made me skate harder and understand that pain was part of the process. Pain is just weakness leaving the body. Lets see....memories. Drunk skaters, hating bmx mokes because they weren't careful and on busy nights were a bit of a hazard even to good skaters. New ones really had trouble. I remember that we all were working on snow options. Arnie was hanging with the WinterStick guys and bindings were all immensely lame. We tried Velcro, bungies, Gnarly grip tape and combinations of the like. No one was into edges on the snowboards at that point except burton and we all hated that rope thing. I met Tom Sims and Chuck Barfoot around then and they took me boarding for the first time with their latest prototypes. At the time they were big plastic sled type things with a Brad Bowman skateboard bolted to the top of it. Most of the great skaters from that era did love to dissapear into the mountains and occasionally drift into the valley. In our defense there were no ski resorts in American that would let snowboards on lifts, we were all die hard climbers. It took a few times of climbing the snowy mountain to make a staircase but the first climb could go on for hours before the first ride. Steve Olsen came out once or twice to visit Arnie and boom........climb a snowy mountain with me. It was the winter side of the summer skatepark life. Truly a great memory. Long winded...sorry. Here's the only pic I have of Rocky Mountain Surf. Yours truly is an egomaniac and its the only one I have.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=43943863&albumID=433296&imageID=1380863
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That Magic Feeling
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On 6/15/2009
hc
wrote in from
United States
(24.130.nnn.nnn)
The skateboard movie, That Magic Feeling is released by Jon Malvino. Shot in and around San Francisco and Marin
County, it features Kim Cespedes and Nick van Krydt.
anyone seen this?
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First "Commercial" skate boards
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On 5/30/2009 Larry D
wrote in from
United States
(71.209.nnn.nnn)
Well... I was able to contact Roger N. and actually talked with him for a while on the phone. (it's only been 50 years)
He owns a surf board shop, has for a long time, and is doing very well. I was really glad to hear that.
He remembers the day in the driveway in Cupertino like it was yesterday. (prototyping a "downhill" board from 1 by's and steel skate wheels to traverse that sloping curving driveway) Remember, we were all of eight and nine years old and that slope and radical turn at the sidewalk were "treacherous" to us.
Roger was able to confirm my memories of the day and added one player I didn't remember, his older cousin Skip who Roger said saw us going down the driveway sitting on the boards and asked, "why don't you stand on it and go down"? We did, and got pretty good at it, and began building skate boards for the neighborhood. (we are back to where I left off a month ago)
Roger remembers giving boards to Annis Jensen's daughters along with half the kids in our neighborhood and he remembers the Roller Derby skate boards. In fact he has several in his "collection" of surfing and skate boarding memorabilia. HOWEVER, he is still in regular contact with Annis and her daughter Barbara and feels they were not involved in the development of the first "Roller Derby" skate boards.
Roger told me that he has thought about it over the years and even discussed it with Annis and Barbara and as much as he "wishes" that it had all started in that driveway that day in 1959, he says according to them, it did not.
SO ... The first commercial skate board bore the logo "Roller Derby" right down the middle of it and was "probably" promoted by "someone" in the Roller Derby organization who "May" have gotten the idea from an early skate boarder in 1959 BUT, it appears that there was no connection to the four 9 year olds in Annis's neighborhood.
I agree with Roger though ... I sure "wish" there was ... If someone is able to follow up further, perhaps someone who was in the Roller Derby organization at the time, and is able to pin point the transition from rough, hand made boards to the first commercial boards I would love to see it become part of the "history" of the sport, no matter who was involved.
That's it from this end,
Larry D
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Roller Derby
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On 5/29/2009
Rene CANNONBALL Carrasco
wrote in from
United States
(69.239.nnn.nnn)
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dshufly's comments
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On 5/25/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
"Stoke" that everyone had to do their own thing. 1st or
Next is as unimportant as Best or Next Best,...remember,.."the best skater on any given day is the one having the most fun!"
Yes, I remember. Today there is too much instant recognition needed. ITs not the ride, but the trick that reigns supreme
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Early Flippers
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On 5/24/2009 dshufly
wrote in from
United States
(66.27.nnn.nnn)
Both Ty Page & Kurt Lindgren were doing kickflips in 75-76', Bobby Boyden was
also in the mix and he did it on "VERTICAL" surfaces,..prior to the Dogtown boys
doing any sort of Airs! 1st or next doesn't really matter,..each of these skaters
were part of a natural progression of Trick Evolution,..as well as many other
skaters across the U.S.,.....I traveled the states in 76' for six months and
was impressed with the "Stoke" that everyone had to do their own thing. 1st or
Next is as unimportant as Best or Next Best,...remember,.."the best skater on any
given day is the one having the most fun!"
V shufly
ps...Torger Johnson was a Classic, although short lived, he will never be forgottn as a major contributor to the decipline that is skateboarding.
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tagged
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On 5/17/2009
caddy
wrote in from
United States
(209.237.nnn.nnn)
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boyden k.f.
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On 5/14/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
i don't know if he was the first but i think i remember his "Who's hot" he was known for kickflip variations, on to a board off the top of a board,sort of 180 kf,i think doubles too.
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Kick Flip
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On 5/14/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
On 5/13/2009 caddy wrote in from United States (209.237.nnn.nnn)
where does Bobby Boyden come into this picture?
the first time I remember seeing Bobby Boyden was kick flipping off of a platform. But this is my whole argument in my long post below. When all you have to go on is magazines, which print dates lagged reality by atleast 2 months. NOT TO MENTION all the thousands of skaters who were completely capable, but were not in the southern california mag "favorites" list, you get very limited picture of what is really happening, or who did what. the internet has really changed this. Now we have 10 billion pros. Where's the freakin novelty in that? There aint no novelty, it's like having a drivers license.
Was Bobby Boyden the first kick flipper? could be. But Skateboarder ran a trick tip (or maybe a whos hot- i dont remember) by Kurt Lindgren doing it. So, for all of eternity, except for the people really truly there, Kurt Lindgren gets the nod. Its wrong, but that the way it goes with such a very limited picture
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kickflip
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On 5/13/2009
caddy
wrote in from
United States
(209.237.nnn.nnn)
where does Bobby Boyden come into this picture?
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Buddy
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On 5/13/2009
Cliff Coleman
wrote in from
United States
(70.239.nnn.nnn)
Buddy,
The first Bunny Hop I saw was at the Anaheim Championships in 1965. It was done on a flat surface. I'm not sure, but it may have been Danny Schafer?
Cliff Coleman
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1st's, or...nto
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On 5/13/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
I honestly feel that skateboarding progressed too quickly in that 76-79 time frame to honestly nail down who did what. In Alabama, we only had the wild world, skateboard world, skateboarder, and skaterider/waverider (awesome Florida based mag) magazines. So, who we saw do tricks was what was shown in the mags. But we knew there were skaters all over the country that were equally capable and equally initiated at inventing tricks.
Now, in the age of internet, it is far easier to document something new and off the wall.
On the fs air thing and Tony Alva, all the photos reference the dogbowl, but I dont think everyone that sees those photos realize that the dogbowl stuff happened in late 77/ early 78, not way back in 75 or possibly 76 as the current media now has everyone believing. the dead give away is the green 2nd gen Krypts.
I think the actual claim on the fs air and Alva (if it is legit) is that it was in a pool. I have seen numerous shots of the florida guys in the earlier days (mid 76) doing off the lips in pools (bs and fs) (clyde rogers, jeff croyl, walker, greg mischeid, etc) , but even back then then it was questioned if it was actually successfully ridden out. All we had were still photos, no video footage at all. And even a question of successful completion of the manuever was not so much an issue as was the simple awesomeness of the attempt itself. case in point, the Jay adams handplant things. The ALva fs air photo showed authority and calmness, as well as a firm hold to the board. We knew that photo showed an actual completed manuever in a pool, no doubt.
But first true FS air or backside, I think you have to go back to the bunny hops and doing it on hips in ditches and such. there is no telling who really did this first.
what about the inverts. There were guys in florida doing those wild fs (no less!) aerial berts and stuff that darn near appraoched a miller flip (not invented yet) more than anything.
I am not saying florida, florida, florida, I am simply using it as an alternative to the socal did everything, and that stuff was happening everywhere. 76-79 will never ever be duplicated again, nor can it be duplicated!
what about a frontside kick-in/roll-in off a wall or bench (from a stopped position). that is essentially the same movement as an ollie. I know some of the ones that even we did were actually airborn before we ever eclipsed over the edge of the wall.
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1st's, or.... not
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On 5/12/2009 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.68.nnn.nnn)
Buddy, I'm glad you put Greg Walker (well, and Torger, too) out there possible 1st candidates. My gut feeling is that the actual "1st" wasn't recorded or noted by any provable means (kinda like my 80+ mph luge runs in the early 80's- I wasn't bringing a camera along, 'cause, duh, it'd break if I dropped it!) : so, it'll likely come down to witnesses, photos, and/or a contest that it was noted at.
Herbn, 'air' in a pool, not to mislead anyone in a wrong direction, but I'd add Mark Lake (Flite) to early possible air antics. When I saw him in '76, in N.Y. or N.J., in a drainage ditch, he was already getting 'air', but without any 'ollie', just freaky-fast lines up+out. I only got to speak to him once, and that was some 2 years later ('78, in N.J.). But who knows? Pools out west were already being heavily sessioned, as were ditches, by '76 and even earlier. Again, I doubt the "real" first was even documented. ;-)
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first "indy air"
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On 5/12/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
well sort of, it wasn't really like duanes, though the grip and the direction were the same,boy position was more above the board,definitely not with the head under the board, Gunnar Haugo,apparently thought outside the box when it came to skate moves, he apparently was better known for one footed carves.i googled his name to once i thought of it ,to check spelling,it still looks weird. he probabely did other odd tricks. Wait maybe he double grabbed inside and outside rail,it's been a long time since i saw the pic, but it was around the coping of a backyard pool,so it was a way early grab,but still an air a very early air.
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another first,air
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On 5/12/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
air, there's a old board, definitely in the oldest dt style, supposedly made by tony alva himself for "perfecting the frontside air" well the board that we've all seen in the first pictures of the frontside air,is not this one,we've all seen it, i don't really need to describe it,blank alva ply deck(prototype).midtracks green kryptonic 65mm, a few kryptonic stickers, that's it. This may have been a practice board from before that, that was never in the pics,i don't know how long TA was trying airs before those pics,but i don't think it was that long.This board looks like it was thrown away for weeks, by a tony alva fan while trying to learn airs alot of people made their own boards and /or decorated their boards in the dt style. For thousands of dollars on ebay ,i'm gonna be a bit cynical. i wonder if Orton has any of his old taperkicks lying around,and there was another rider who did some of the first airs,sort of a low kind of not to stylish indy(backside) air,not like duanes' i used to have the page ,i have no idea about the date of the mag it came out of but it was very early, right at the start of ply boards, half the pics were of pig boards, i think it was from "skateboard world" anybody remember that pic or have a complete collection of that mag?
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kick-flip
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On 5/12/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
I think, as far as what the rest of the country saw in the mags, that Kurt Lindgren may have the props. But we all know mags do not necessarily present the truth, but rather who got their picture taken doing it. So I would like to hear some of you west coasters or east coasters give us the real story.
what about Torger Johnson, or Greg Walker etc etc? (or even earlier) or possibly an average Joe that never got any coverage at all.
and I took this to mean old style kick-flip (toe under)
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Define the 'flip'
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On 5/11/2009 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
United States
(75.68.nnn.nnn)
Whoa, hey, let's back-up for a second here... Define "kickflip" please 1st!!
Is this the 'catch the toe under the board' 180* kickflip, the 'one foot toe-under' 360* kickflip, the handspring (or handstand) 180* or 360* kickflip, or the "ollie" kickflip??
Not to take away from any 1st's here, I just want the gallery to please acknowledge that variants of the kickflip have been with us awhile now, with masters of certain forms being obvious in particular timeframes.
While Howell is a certain Innovator (and as such, one of my fave skaters!), I'll bet that Torger (or one of his contemporaries) has dibs on the simple 360* 'toe under' kickflip, whereas, I've seen, with my own eyes, Russ do a handstand 360* kickflip back in '76, which absolutely blew me away (and was certainly NOT his 1st try;It was by then, a practiced, perfected move done for show. Ollie kickflips, however, probably belong to Martinez, Mullen, Rocco or someone in that era? Herbn, man, you do pick some great 'what ifs' for all of us to ponder! ;-)
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kickflip
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On 5/11/2009 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
let's see ,kurt lindgren?, torger johnson? ty page? bobby friers? wait maybe dale "sausageman" smith on second thought torger had to much of flow /style. i'll just leave the guess because it's been to long since i've seen it in print, it wouldn't be a dogtown guy, they would have reminded us over and over again, same with howell.hmmm i can't wait for a definite answer,maybe i'll google this. Well i leave this post un f'n modified, why couldn't i remember physics or calculus or other stuff in school ,noooo , i get stuck with this. The other day i was looking through ebay and i saw a board with a illuminati eye on it for 500+ bucks and i thought "andy howell" no thinking,no gap just instantly, like finnishing a sentance ,click on it,sure enough ,totally useless knowledge,he he
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kick flip
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On 5/10/2009
caddy
wrote in from
United States
(209.237.nnn.nnn)
who did the first kick flip?
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roller derby facts
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On 4/30/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
please do keep us up to date. thats cool stuff. It may not crank everyone's tractor, but atleas Paul, Jack, and I are listening. I also clued in Jim Goodrich into the thread, so he is "watching from the fence".
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Confirming the facts
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On 4/30/2009 Larry D
wrote in from
United States
(70.59.nnn.nnn)
Paul and Buddy,
I have contacted Jack Smith and I think we can confirm the truth of the events and what effect they had or didn't have on the commercialization of skate boards and skate boarding in 1959. I will keep you posted.
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Roller Derby Circle
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On 4/17/2009 Paul Howard
wrote in from
(173.8.nnn.nnn)
LARRY D - If you have those people's contact info,
#1 - They would probably appreciate the completely surprise letter, email or phone call from someone in their past, people are weird that way.
#2 - If they don't want to get together on a story-telling history project, they can always say "no thanks" and you won't be guessing and they'll at least know they had a shot at it, since you offered. Maybe they have had similar thoughts seeing where skateboarding has gone and just need a nudge. Maybe, maybe not.
#3 - Jack Smith who can readily be found on www.skateboardersjournal.com(his project) or here at NCDSA on the Slalom forum would likely be interested in working with you on it if noone else would.
It took a LONG time of kids ignoring and downplaying the history of skateboarding but more and more as time goes on the kids I see around at skateparks and else where say things to me like "Wow, that's cool you saw all that stuff when it was happening in the old days" when they find out I've been skateboarding since 1974.
That's my 2 Cents on the subject. Adios - Paul
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more history
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On 4/13/2009
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
wrote "When I see young people enjoying themselves at skate board parks I feel that it would be nice if they knew more about those months in 1959 when the sport transitioned from young neighborhood boys and girls first pushing the envelope on a local basis in Cupertino to the beginning of the opportunity for young people everywhere to do the same."
You know I thought the same thing, and tried to introduce as much background as I could. But with the market (skaters and media) being so "now" oriented, history is not even in the equation. It truly seems that the only people interested are the people that skated pre-'80's. Its a real shame. On here, people will care and utilize the info to piece that little extra bit of history into the big picture.
the easy way to think of it is like this. There are eras or generations in the skateboard market. great-great grandkids understand virtually nothing about that early generation. Apply it skateboarding and it works the exact same way. And what they do understand is usually filtered incorrectly by the "now" media mentality. How many people can really tell you much about their G-G-grandparents? then the next question is how many really even cared to research their G-G- grandparents? that small little bitty handful is the audience that uses good histroical info. But, being on the defense about someone using it undesirably is 100% warranted.
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More Detailed History
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On 4/13/2009 Annonomous - for now
wrote in from
United States
(71.33.nnn.nnn)
Sorry. I'm not trying to be elusive.
I have had several run-ins with the news media in the past (not skate board related) and it hasn't been pleasant.
I can not say for a fact that someone in the Roller Derby organization took the design of the boards from Barbara and Patty's pair and went commercial without making any contact with the four young boys who had prototyped them so I am reluctant to say too much or give any names except the ones already publicly known.
When I see young people enjoying themselves at skate board parks I feel that it would be nice if they knew more about those months in 1959 when the sport transitioned from young neighborhood boys and girls first pushing the envelope on a local basis in Cupertino to the beginning of the opportunity for young people everywhere to do the same.
It amazes me that whoever it was that manufactured those first Roller Derby boards never tried to obtain a patent ... maybe because they didn't design the boards.
I left my e-mail address with my first post in case someone wanted more information on a private basis but no one has sent me a reply yet.
My parents had an 8mm (color) movie camera at the time and I thought there may be footage of the four of us on the boards (possibly even during the "prototyping") but all I could find (so far) is footage of Patty and my sister roller skating on the driveway where it all happened. If I come across any actual film I will post it.
I visited the old neighborhood a few years back and talked with the person who bought the house from Annis Jensen (they still live there)and they gave me her daughter's phone number (Barbaras) but I never called her. I don't know that she even realizes the circumstances (or wants to) and I don't want to start something that she may not want to be part of.
I feel the same way about the other three boys that were in on the prototyping process. I have not had contact with them since 1963.
Enough for now, Maybe word will spread "grass roots" about the Roller Derby connection and any of the players that WANT to come forward will do so on their own.
It really is an interesting story (a piece of history) and this is the 50th anniversary of the transition.
Larry D
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