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| Home Made Boards (6188 Posts)
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Home Made Boards |
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On 9/20/2004
Yan0
wrote in from
United States
(140.233.nnn.nnn)
This S camber thing sounds fascinating,
Unfortunately I only have a slight idea of what an S camber board is. How much camber do you put in there? is the front truck mounted on the part facing up or down? or have I completely dropped the ball?
Thanks
Yan0
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On 9/20/2004
frank
wrote in from
United States
(24.153.nnn.nnn)
psYch0Lloyd i'm with you on this. After watching aki haul ass on one in athens I started looking at these things. I think I have a good design for one and will probably start my mold this week. If I could only find decent materials.
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On 9/19/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
with the truck at 0 degrees, the kingpin keeps the hanger in the pivot, it could move a bit by sideloading the bushing but not enough to pop out. If the kingpin were to snap the hanger would come out instantly as opposed to the 2 tenths of a second it takes on a normally positioned truck. However, i myself don't even like the slow responce of 35 degree trucks.If you call steering instability , i'd respond with," i really like my skateboard to have a bit of instability, i think 40 to 45 degrees of instability in both trucks is really nice.
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On 9/19/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
long before hearing about the s-cambre deck. i came upon a board which is called the wicked. soon after i tried the indiana s-cambre. the deck of this particular manufacturer had some problems but it occurred to me that the principal functionality of the s-cambre closely resembled that of my own creation. as time went on i would occasionally hear similar sentiments from others who've been fortunate enough to have ridden both designs.
after witnessing the performance of s-cambres at a couple races (ie: paris and athens) it dawned on me that maybe i should do some work with this concept. one rather long conversation with vlad popov and some reading on jani solderholl's long going afair with this legendary shape and i was hooked.
having worked only one week with this design i am almost dumbfounded how closely the wicked emulates the s-cambre in performance (if only conceptually):
1) both decks hold the feet in the very same asymmetric position whether one rides with a goofy or regular stance. one where the front foot's toes are higher than it's heel and the rear foot's heel are higher than the toes. check it out some time, you'll notice it makes sense (you can confirm this even w/o a deck under your feet).
2) both decks allows the rider to lock or locate the rear foot for a consistent stance.
3) both decks relocate the flex of the deck from the rear (skinny) part of the deck to the front 3rd quarter area.
the major difference between the s-cambre and the wicked is that the s-cambre accomplishes all this in 2D and the wicked does this and also lock/location for the front foot by employing a 3D deck contour. note: recent improvements (concave) on the s-cambre does give the front foot this added feature of late.
after an exhaustive study on the different approaches to the s-cambre and more recent innovations i'll have to admit that jani pretty much got it right. barring subtle personal preferences in the deck's pitch, length, wheelbase, flex, and overall shape. i truly believe that airflow's rendition reigns supreme.
that being said, my task is simple...
...and that's simply to improve on perfection.
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On 9/18/2004 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(24.53.nnn.nnn)
Svarteld,first off,I want to congradulate you on your imaginative design ideas! Keep that up,please! However,I'm a tad bit concerned on one fine point here...If you run a truck (particularly a Randal/Gullwing) at a flat rate of steer,what's keeping the hanger in the pivot cup? Seperation of the hanger from the pivot area at 100 KPH would be bad,no? As I see it,this type of truck is relatively dependant on the rider's weight to help keep things in place under the stresses of turning and road irreglarities.Ever hit a pothole going 3-4 times faster than you can run? You'll find out quickly,very quickly,how well everything is put together. Having a pivot like this,with no angular forces on it to keep it in place,unnerves me somewhat. That all said,what you're thinking Might just work with other existing truck designs. A final note on rear steering.I've found that the human body prefers Some kind of reactionary forces in navigation behind the center of it's mass.It's probably due to the instinctive "Flee or Fight" programming that imbued deep in our collective will.Even RaceCars are more fun if they 'oversteer'(although I LIKE the way Saabs feel in mud! Power-On Understeer is SO much fun!!),so it's not a natural feeling thing to have all steering removed at the rear of a moving vehichle.In a true kinasthetic sense,it's not an appealing thing to be limited in manuvering,and that in itself takes a Mental Adjustment,which can Delay crucial judgements at speed.So,I'd advise to leave a little bit of steering,just to keep one's subconscious sanity in check.
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On 9/18/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
my new board ,which has a lengthy(for me) wheelbase, is still quite snappy,not to flexy. Quite responcive at speed,just can't make those tight turns in the supermarket. The board is about a quarter of an inch thick where the trucks mount, and with my trucks, the tops of the 76mm gumballs are almost even with the top of the deck, it looks like a stretch indy car,except the tires are green.With 90mm wheels this boar would keep rolling after it flips over.The construction is a hybred of birch ply and v lam, with a few layers of triax carbon wraping the central beam. Can't wait to get it up to some real speed.
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On 9/17/2004
FL
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
Pic of the zero degree rear truck is at http://geocities.com/sk8sanjose/lugefred.jpg .FL
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On 9/17/2004 psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
dagnamit! strange and funny shapes are rolling through my head again...
...guessin' it's aboot time to build a new board.
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On 9/15/2004
Svarteld
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.64.nnn.nnn)
FL,
Thanks for the comments. I'll put some plys in the press this week to build that deck. Can you send me some pictures of your zero degree rear truck? And that wheelchair steering? Any more impressions about no rear steer?
Did my first downhill race this weekend, on my damped board, worked fine, made it possible for a rookie like me to keep up with some more experienced riders :-) (second in picture). Some other guys at the race are also building a damped board for DH now. Plus a concept jet-driven longboard for a magazine...
/Peter
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On 9/14/2004 FL
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
Forgot to add that there is a front wheel assembly for wheelchairs that has a nice trailing axle design .It uses something like a skateboard bushing to absorb shock. Saw it on a neighbors titanium{!!?} sportschair...FL
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On 9/14/2004
FL
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
I have been running a custom Zero Degree rear truck for quite a while on my laydown . It works ok at under 25 mph , but really shines at higher {much higher} speeds .I believe hc has a pic at his sanjose sk8 website under lugefred jpg ....FL
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On 9/7/2004
skatestarr
wrote in from
United States
(199.46.nnn.nnn)
Yo Will, until you get the press going you can also go to your local plywood specialty warehouse (Home depot doesn't have the good stuff!) or cabinet supply company and buy some 9 or 11 ply Baltic Birch (depending on your weight) and make a nice flat deck to cruise. When I started I only had a Jig saw and a vibrating sander, after a couple of tries they started to turn out pretty nice. It all depends on what funds you have and how complicated you want the deck making to be. Yeah, the deck may be a little heavier than the one's made with the higher tech materials and fabrication, but throw on some wide trucks and some big soft wheels and it feels like a Cadillac...
Later, Steve
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On 9/7/2004
Christopher
wrote in from
United States
(68.64.nnn.nnn)
Will,
It really takes an artistic woodworking to get a satisfying board. After six years of evolution my board-guru has gone from building decks out of water skies and random chunks of driftwood, to honning in on the key elements that provide durability and style. The few things you need, without giving away a formula, as that is for you to figure out and half the fun, wood, glue, things to cut with(skill saw, circular saw), some form of press, C-clamps, and a vision. For your wood, get creative, and remember to keep it a light and sturdy wood, as you need strength and the ease of carrying it around. You don't want to be carrying around a dresser with trucks on it. Resins are what keep the world glued together. These are expensive at times but worth it, I had a board of mine ran over at 15mph and dragged for ten feet and the board only cracked through 1-1/2 of the plys. Industrial resins are worth the investment. Implements to cut with, if you don't already have these tools your buddies probably will lend them to you. But if you want to do this more than once, it is worth it to get your own equipment, as it will teach you a new craft/art. Your press is very important, 2 things: Never set a deck in the press with resin on the outside,(it's logical if you think about it, but we didn't once, and lost the press); your press has two sides, top and bottom, they are opposites of each other, reflections. Misc. items like proper dril bits are for you to figure out. But the most important thing to remember is this:
You are bringing a masterpiece to the world, sink you genius into making it, design it outside of what you know. To many of the boards I see coming out today are all the same. Break the mold, and hope to God it's not your press.
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On 9/6/2004
will
wrote in from
United States
(68.80.nnn.nnn)
Yo i am interested in making me own skateboard deck and i was wondering what it takes...equip., wood, everything..thanks
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On 9/4/2004 Andy
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(62.254.nnn.nnn)
well, i got my board in its shoddy press, i didn't have enough clamps so i had to use wieghts.... a spare car wheel, my record collection, my box of beers and other assorted crap!
the only problem now... what the hell do i do while the glue dries! no beer no music...
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On 8/31/2004
Svarteld
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.64.nnn.nnn)
...sorry, should be 35 degree front. Ooops.
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On 8/31/2004
Svarteld
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.64.nnn.nnn)
Duane,
I'll tell you when I've done my first run on it. Winter is coming fast in Sweden... better hurry up! I've finished the press this weekend.
About rear steering: true, steering in rear is not common among weichles. Some experiments I've seen made with four wheel steering cars seems to steer like a normal longboard at low speeds (decreasing turn-around radius, making tight parking easier), but in higher speeds the rear steering gradually shifts to anti-steering, to calm things down. Some sketches I've made have a slight anti-steering rear, but the total geometry would be slower than even the most extreme downhill board. The picture shows 15 degrees anti-steering rear, with 30 degrees front, wheelbase 75 cm, wich equals a 30/30 degree downhill board with a wheelbase around 300 cm... _pretty_ slow turning. Might be a little over the top :-)
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On 8/30/2004 Duane
wrote in from
United States
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
Let me know how that zero degree rear truck works out. I had some skatecar plans on paper with a zero degree rear, very similar to what you show except with a trailing arm suspension as well (allowing the truck to pivot upward with a bicycle shock / damper in place). I really didn't want any steering from the rear but I figured the rules would dictate a skateboard truck in the rear, mandatory. There is no reason to believe that it won't work well, very few vehicles steer from the rear, and I like my 28 degree rear Randal baseplate better than the 35's at speed. One possible problem, the pivot will have a tendency to push out of the cup, rather than in, a bearing there would be a better choice.
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On 8/30/2004
yan0
wrote in from
Chile
(164.77.nnn.nnn)
now I am incredibly frusturated. Thats what I started doing, only did one layer, thought I could coat it with a bunch of carbon and have it work.. it didnt. now I have a neglected peice of wood, fiberglass, and carbon sitting in the corner of my room.
STUPID
thanks again.
yan0
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On 8/29/2004
Svarteld
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.64.nnn.nnn)
yan0,
Thanks.
I use 3-ply of both 3.3 and 3.9 mm, and first wet-press them all at the same time to make the wood bend in a small radius without braking. Just don't try tyo boil it... won't do that again.
Then I let the plys dry outside the press, and then dry-press them, same press, with epoxi. You also need to cut the plys somewhat like an oversized board before pressing, or it will be too hard. After that it's just cutting and sanding. And, if you like, add some motorcycle steering dampers... I'll post some of that project later :-)
You probably need to put some concave in the press to make the board stiff enough for downhill, the more the stiffer.
Some say wet-pressing won't work, that it'll screw up the ply glueing, but these boards are rock solid, no flex at all. And, ahem, they're pretty thick and heavy also, but I like it that way, feels stable at speed. Could be a good idea to minimize wet time though. I've had them in the tub overnight.
Good luck!
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On 8/29/2004
yan0
wrote in from
Chile
(164.77.nnn.nnn)
silverted,
those look incredible to say the least. Unfortunately, they only frusturate me because I have been tring to make a dropped cg board like that for some time now. I have not come close to succeding. All I can get ahold of right now is 5ply, and that breaks any time I try to press it. I am trying to get ahold of 3 ply in hopes that it works out better. Just curiously, what wood are you using? do I need to grab veneer and make my own ply?
muchos gracias
yan0
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On 8/29/2004
Svarteld
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.64.nnn.nnn)
Zero degree rear truck
I'm building an experiment for Randal DH, wich gives zero degrees rear, 45 degrees front (the top two in the picture. with the press). It's steering geometry will (if it works) be almost identical to my latest build (lowest two pictures), with 29 degree front and rear (though I now use that one with 46 front, 29 rear - feels better to have more front steering). Hopefully, the rear non-steering truck will give less tendency to wash out, and the board can be made short but still slow-turning for downhill. It also allows me to turn the rear truck backwards, trailing instead of pushing, and to make the truck mounting area shorter. My stance will put the feet exactly in the pocket-forming bends next to the trucks, with no need to look at foot placement. The deck will have no flex, completely stiff. The first longer deck is made with a similar press, working fine - my favorite deck this summer.
Any experinence or comments of this construction?
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On 8/28/2004
CHEWY
wrote in from
United States
(63.105.nnn.nnn)
my buddy Asa and I have been building boards for 6 years now, what a blast.
many many shapes and ideas have been tried. our first boards were flat stiff downhillers that boosted confidence bombing but left a little to be desiered in the carving world.
Recently we have made molds with camber and concave that carved like dreams.
balsa core, layered glass and carbon, awesome rides; a few high density foam decks got made and WOW(cost of good foam is the reason for the use of balsa)
all deck are vacum baged and layed up using west system epoxy
the shop we use also builds boats and a worker there sugested using injection technique to avoid air bubbles that later crack the decks.
west system is a very thick epoxy and so an alternate glue is being researched
polyester resin is poo pooed but what of vinylester resins or maybe thinner types of resins (like mass?)
any ideas on glue
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On 8/27/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
pre try, dry run whatever you call it. Before you wet everything down with gluem, give it a try see how things fit,can you handle the parts. I decided to fill the space between the beams of my new project board with strips of hardwood ,and add another layer of triax carbon, neatly wrapped and tucked under the new strips. Give it a try,glueless,no go the parts slip and slide and the carbon can't be tucked in tightly. SO i use just a bit of titebond between the strips and tuck everything in place(upsidedown), the stips are now on strip and the little bit of tite bond that squeezed out has tacked the carbon inplace,but it should still soak up the epoxy just fine. Tommorrow i glue, after bit of prep of the plastic blocks that form my pressplates. I think this board is gonna have specially lathed bolts that will act as traction pins(ala mtb pedals),as an example, if the ply is 1/2 inch thick, take a pan head bolt with 3/4 inch under the head and chuck it up with a soft grip collet so the threads can be removed from the leading 1/4 inch of the bolt, just drill and tap the wood,install with epoxy as locktite.
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On 8/24/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
this beamer design is real light,a bit flexxy,how to strengthen?, an extra layer of carbon,between the beams? with glassed boards i've found that extra glass adds way more weight than strength,is carbon better? HHHmmmm, i'll have to see what i got left in carbon rodm,maybe i can epoxy some carbon rods into the corners between the rails and the bottom of the deck.
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