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| Home Made Boards (6188 Posts)
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Home Made Boards |
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building boats or whatever
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On 1/5/2005
jimz
wrote in from
Canada
(24.71.nnn.nnn)
Easy access to epoxy is at the boat repair shop. They have all kinds of stuff and everything you need to mix, spread, and keep it off of yourself. Easiest way to get everything you need under one store. It's a bit more expensive tho.
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questions, answers
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On 1/5/2005 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(142.20.nnn.nnn)
Epoxy: My only experience is with a product called G2 Epoxy...its been remarkably strong. Price is higher, along with QUALITY(don't use polyurethanes, they're brittle). Set times vary from 12 - 48 hrs depending on temperature. Use a room heater below 65 degrees F, or put the whole deal in a heated closet or box. Ratios of resin to hardener will determine flexibility...some guys are using 4:1, others 1:1, my deck is great at 2:1.
Question: What exactly is a "nervous" camber and how far forward of center is the best placement for the camber's apex?
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glue/expoxy?
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On 1/5/2005 Dave
wrote in from
United States
(206.165.nnn.nnn)
Can anyone recommend a good glue/epoxy
for multi-ply hard rock lamination? and what is the
set up time, expense,is it waterproof? etc.
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patience
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On 1/2/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
my press room is quite cold right now, it took 48 hours for my epoxy to firm up,i took the press plates out and put them onm my heater,24 hrs later the runoff was glassy hard and tough like epoxy should be. Then i took the press platesd off and peeled back the mylar.
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winter skating
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On 12/31/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
On another topic...A new discipline. "Slushboarding". Just took my homemade for a paddle round a few blocks. Wet, only-just-barely-not-too-slushy-anymore asphalt. A little freaky. Wheels don't grab, they skim. Pushing and pumping? Speed? Well, not exactly, but it's fun anyway...Ah to be in Cali, now that (January)'s there.
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O.K., Not just yet
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On 12/31/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(142.20.nnn.nnn)
Interesting debate. More glass = more spring? I used to pole-vault back in high school, and the pole was some kind of fiberglass layup. I could never bend it like the pros but you've seen 'em on T.V....they bend the pole right in half! Then the energy stored-up in the bent pole releases as you start your ascent, actually catapulting you over the bar (hopefully). Those poles were ultra-light, and built for extreme energy-return. Of course the main difference is shape: a pole has far more intrinsic strength than a board. Therefore:concave. but its not really strength we're going for as much as spring. Hmmm...
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equal?
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On 12/30/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
if you have a tail on as board then thetop of the board takes some shearing strength,in front of the back truck. I was just about to mis state,but i deleted that, top glass would actually slow the rebound of the bottom glass,hhmmm interesting thought.
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layers
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On 12/30/2004 duane
wrote in from
United States
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
balance, daniel-san, balance
equal layers on top and bottom
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Glass
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On 12/30/2004 Dave
wrote in from
United States
(67.168.nnn.nnn)
I would go with thicker glass on top.
Glass is stronger in tension than compression.(sp)
Top of deck is compression, bottom tension.
Core takes shear loads. Think of it holding the glass
in place to take the load.
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here we go
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On 12/30/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(142.20.nnn.nnn)
Guys, Thanks. Beginner stuff I know, but mistakes are too easy to make and too expensive to tolerate! Going with two 5-ply BB pcs glued together w flexible epoxy, and bi-ax glass, one layer on top and two on bottom. Let you know how it works out.
Cheers!
Tom T
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core to glass
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On 12/29/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
i generally find that the core is the strength,the glass is the springyness. One layer on top two on the bottom.
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Flex
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On 12/29/2004 Dave
wrote in from
United States
(67.168.nnn.nnn)
Tom, rough guide: Thickness cubed=stiffness
Adding a 1/16" veneer will make a difference
in flex.
A thin core+thick glass will be heavy but should
flex farther without breaking vs thick core+thin
skins.
Wheel base changes the flex a lot. Going from 19-20"
made my slalom deck softer.
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herbn
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On 12/28/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
I kinda had that feeling looking at the tri-ax glass in the boat shop...it looked like it would be thick and heavy by the time you got the epoxy into it. And the omni-directional looks a mess to work with. Anyway, guess I'll be using bi-ax. Any pros/cons to using a thinner core and more glass? I'm thinking of a 5-ply piece w two or three added veneers, then a glass top and bottom. How many layers do you think are needed for a 210 lb hard carver?
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uni vs bi vs triax
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On 12/25/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
specific strength,triax is strong in multi directionsm,it seems to need a lot of glue,it tends to be heavier, i think this is especially true for homebuildsm, which i believe might tend to be more glue heavy than production work. It's hard to find good production work in skateboardingm,especially since i really can't buy all kinds of expensive boards, most of them tend to be slalom boards. I'm kind of comparing my own and other local carbon work and pictures i've seen, with the carbon work in the bicycle industry, Zipp wheels, my Giant TCS ect ect. Comets and landyachts seem to kind of heavy, to me.Bi directional glass and carbon seems to be the best overallm,especially the carbonm, it seems to wet up real nice and squeegy off and it's really strong. Uni driectional needs multi-layers, unless of course the cross grain and twisting strength of your core is acceptable to you and your just trying add some spring.Sector's platnum series board might be a good example of this.
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Merry Christmas
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On 12/24/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
dave, greg...thanks for the info. Merry Christmas. Hope its a jolly good time one and all. Getting to the new board in January...talk to you soon.
Cheers
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Glassing
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On 12/24/2004 Dave
wrote in from
United States
(67.168.nnn.nnn)
Tom: You only want enough resin
to wet out the cloth.
Put cloth on dry and squeege the
resin on and work out any bubbles.
With a thick layup do this several
times. Dry cloth, resin, squeege, repeat.
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AllStar
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On 12/24/2004 Greg Olsen
wrote in from
Canada
(209.205.nnn.nnn)
Tom I can't help you on epoxy as I have only used polyester. I use a paintbrush to spread the resin on top of the cloth if the resin spread on below the cloth isn't enough to wet the cloth out. So I would apply resin on the surface lay the dry cloth over and brush to soak the resin through painting more on if it doesn't wet out from below. That way no more resin than absolutely needed is used. And vacuum bagging properly with an absorbant layer would reduce the resin to the bare minimum. I have never done it properly so that is just theorizing.
Also the Landyachtz AllStar I have is only 27.25 inches long with a 19.25 (oldschool wheel base, comes drilled new school). That seems in the TS dimensional ballpark. The LY site is in error with regard to the dimensions of this board bigtime. Also I don't think they understand the definition of wheel base as being between the inside truckmount holes. They list the wheel base as 25" on a 30" overall deck dimension. Both wrong according to my deck. Measured between axle centres the 'wheelbase'(as in a car wheelbase) is 23" on my deck.
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glassing
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On 12/23/2004 tom t
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
hey guys...
Anyone tell me how to properly glass a board? My only exp. is w carbon as an in-between layer. Do I: 1)rough the wood surface, 2)epoxy,3)lay on the glass, 4)epoxy, and 5)press? What method is best for spreading the epoxy and removing excess? Should there be more than 1/16" thickness of epoxy atop the glass or less? Do I sand the epoxy as the final step? Is tri-ax glass springier than bi-ax or stiffer? Please advise.
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peel ply
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On 12/23/2004 Dave
wrote in from
United States
(67.168.nnn.nnn)
Greg
I got the glass and peel ply from
www.fiberglasssupply.com Bingen Wa
about 1/2hr east of Marryhill in the gorge.
Peel ply is a fabric that epoxy does
not stick to. A hand layup will have more
resin but is ok and easier for thin glass
layups, not the 1/16" I was doing.
Do you put the formica on with epoxy?
The All Star looks like a fun carver but
it would be too large for general slalom.
It is a GS size WB.
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peel ply?
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On 12/23/2004 Greg Olsen
wrote in from
Canada
(209.205.nnn.nnn)
Hi,
What is peel ply Dave and where do you get it? Yes Tom I have made a BB board. I made a 44" longboard for my sister-in-law for her 41st. It was 2 layers 6mm BBcurved and clamped into a rocker curve(reverse camber, she likes it low for easier pushing) and glued with polyurethane glue. It was too soft so I added a layer of 1/8" mahoganey plywood. I made another slalom deck too from BB. I laminated one layer of 6mm to a piece of some wierd extruded corrugated plastic with aluminum on either side. It makes for a slightly flexy board with slow rebound. Stable on rough stuff but pretty dead feeling. I think it is very damped and lossy...soaks energy up. I will have to try a couple layers of 3mm BB with glass between and on either side for a lively ride. I will do a hand layup as I can squeegee excess resin out. I don't think vacuum bagging in needed for a simple lamination job. I have another in the press with glass/resin bonding a topsheet of Formica onto a BB 6mm core. I will cut the topsheet formica into a pattern larger than the core and lay up glass over the bottom of the core out to the edges of the overhanging Formica. Again, from a bottom view it will look Pocket Pistol-ish, like the board I posted earlier. But Laminate material is very stiff/strong in compression and the top sheet is undergoing compression. Glass composite is better in tension on the bottom of the flexing deck so we will see how that works out.
Also, I bought a Landyachtz AllStar slalom deck but it is VERY springy for my weight....maybe I should lose 25lbs..... I feel more confident on a deader, damped feeling board when sqwiggling fast furious turns at high speed I think. The Allstar pumps on the flats like crazy at slower speeds though..very fun going around the block without pushing at all!!
Greg
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1/2" BB
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On 12/23/2004 Dave
wrote in from
United States
(67.168.nnn.nnn)
Tom T
Yes 12mm BB works well for a slalom deck
19-21" WB and 150-175# rider. It is cheap
and easy. I like flat or low camber slalom
decks.
I made a vacumm bagged slalom deck. 3/8" total
thickness. 1/4" BB core with 1/16" glass skins.
It was baggeg upside down against mylar in a camber
mold.The mold was 3 layers of cheap ply bent and
glued together. Peel ply and paper towels were used
to get extra resin out.
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hey greg
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On 12/21/2004 tom t(oronto)
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
say greg,
I was taking a look at your board, and though I know it's not what you're going for, I wonder if a flat pc of 1/2" BB w wheel cutouts would be better (easier, flexier, lighter?) This whole business of laminating is a b$%# to get wired, and costly. I actually do laminations for a living, and the fumes and equipment are pretty substantial to deal with, nevermind the amount of time...I find my wood and carbon deck has a pretty nice rebound, and it's a much simpler sandwich construction (2 x 1/4" ply's w CF and epoxy in-between).
Another thought is this: In my industry (orthotics/prosthetics)we use a PVA(polyvinylalcohol)bag for vac-formed laminations. The stuff comes in a big roll and we can stretch the hell out of it in all directions. Plus it is sealable to itself w a low-temp iron, if that's of any help. Check out a company called Becker mfg? Its an orthotics/prosthetics supply co and they may sell it to local shops and hospitals.
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mylar no stretchy
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On 12/21/2004 duane
wrote in from
United States
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
yeah, mylar (polyester) does not like to stretch, they stretch it out when making it, to the limit, to make it strong, and it won't go any more without tearing. You can actually see small wrinkles around the edges of some slalom boards, where the core tapers down to meet the top layer.
there is elastic polyester, though, some of the non-allergenic latex gloves are made of it, but condoms proved a bust :P
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mylar for non stick
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On 12/21/2004 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
mylar seems cool for a few reasonsm,it gives a nice finnish to the board,on curved or rounded over shapes that are vacuum bagged the mylar doesn't seem to flex in two directions without wrinkling.
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duh...
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On 12/20/2004 tom in toronto
wrote in from
Canada
(64.228.nnn.nnn)
oh, right. wood on the outside. Sorry, I think I got distracted. Ya, the micro 3-ply is probably great. A good idea no doubt. Its late, I'm half asleep. Today I skated to work in -25 degrees...the bushings got hard, the wheels got hard...the bearings felt slower. Canada is f$#$%&g cold today, you lucky Cali bas - I mean - brothers! Maybe someday...
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