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| Home Made Boards (6188 Posts)
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Home Made Boards |
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road bullet
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On 3/25/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
ahhhh....
...a question that i've posed to myself when i encounter the blank slate of my most recent design. i'm glad someone else made that inquiry the exact words which i've considered posting only a couple days ago. this proves that others out there are questioning the status quo.
for me a design that approaches perfection would be fluent in several disciplines of skateboarding. nimble enough on vert (kickturnable), stable at speed yet alow for fluid turns during a slow cruise come to mind. knowing full well that there are specializations which wouldn't fit this mold (ie: freestyle), i've challenged myself to provide all of these in the most recent concept.
envision a board stabalized for torsional flex ultimately without limiting the deck's overall flexibility. then consider achieving this without it being too thick situating the whole assembly teetering on a tall platform. a balance of feeling low yet enough clearance so that wheel drag is eliminated. this is a lot to ask for but not totally impossible in my mind.
relatively long... definitely, but not so long as to degrade different aspects of the ride. 36" might be the upper limit for such a design. wide enough to be comfortable but not so wide to be an encumbrance. 9" maybe?
finaly there is an aesthetic aspect that we all experience on a conscious and subconscious level. if a shape doesn't evoke those feelings which we aspire for it would never pull it off as the perfect board.
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perfect board
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On 3/24/2005 Michael
wrote in from
United States
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
You guys make boards, right?
So what is it that you look for in a board? In other words, what is the perfect board?
This has been something I've been trying to figure out for some time and I only find myself stumped due to a lack of agreement with my friends.
As crafters of the sleek, wooden road-bullets, what is it that idealizes the perfect board.
Everybody has an opinion on this so lets hear 'em........
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lightest deck to support my frame?
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On 3/24/2005
Jestah
wrote in from
New Zealand
(219.88.nnn.nnn)
Gidday all
I fell in love with a mates deck made from a water ski, spent days just surfing downtown good fun till it was crushed by a car (shouldn’t have been hanging off the nose with traffic) so my next deck is a tangent from my normal positive curve carvers to a negative longboard (surfboard) style nose rider. I will try to get pic soon as we pull the first deck. I will still be trying to make it feather light but strong enough to get run over and abused my me….
Light decks are grand but you have to use a foam core to go super light...
My lightest lay up was:
Glass uni, carbon double bias, then a 6mm thick 130kgm2 foam, carbon double dais and glass uni. (Forgot the weight of glass and carbon)
The deck was around 800g, 1.1m long and was just a tad stiff for my weight (60kg). I worked it hard for a bout 8weeks when I wanted to see if it flexed to the ground.... it did. then a few weeks later when showing off to a mate "see it will flex to the ground" *jump*......*thud*.the deck didn’t snap but rather folded.... the skins were able to come very close together around 2-3mm. it look as if the foam had slowly been braking up under repeated flex. That sucked. I don’t like foam as a total core. Has any one else tried a fully foam deck and is it still in one piece? Can people that have had snaps tell me what they think caused it?
Solutions? what about a foam and wood mix? press a wooden core then drill lots of holes or maybe even better cut out sections ie. wooden rails then a centlal strip down the deck just wider than the truck mounts, maybe a few running rail to rail to stop "folding". Fill the rest with polystyrene or blue foam?. Skin in carbon and glass (any one had luck with carbon and wood in a high flex deck?). Could be very light if a light weight of foam was used and as much excess wood was trimmed off. Although a wasteful method as most of the ply/solid wood would be in the scrap pile.
An other idea im playing with is thin foam 2mm then carbon then foam then carbon ETC. when you trimmed to the edge you would get the carbon acting like a I beam to stop the rail braking up and the foam might not crush the same?
Balsa is another option. end grain I’ve been told would give good resistance to the crushing of the skins together (is my understanding that the cores job is to hold the skins apart and how far apart these are gives stiffness. the stringth and direction of skin fibres gives strength not taking curves into account that is). But is it like a sponge when you try to wet the skins out? could you seal it with fairing compound then lay to that? then again what about balsa planks? the stuff you get at a hobbie shop? with lots of carbon stringer for some I beam effect ...
MMmmmm wouldn’t it be nice to have the time and money and time to try it out?
please any feed back and idea are appreciated.
I fell in love with a mates deck made from a water ski, spent days just surfing downtown good fun till it was crushed by a car (souldnt have been hanging off the nose with traffic) so my next deck is a tangent from my
Jestah
PS long time away, Back to it as I’m deckless…sob. Hope everyone has been in good health. Any good ideas/concepts or gossip i need to catch up on?
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wadamisayin'
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On 3/24/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
reading the response i put out there yesterday made me wonder what 10 kinds of stupid was going through my epoxy fumigated mind.
if the g word was a bit much i apologize to anyone who took offense. please excuse my multithiestic approach to religion and i ask forgiveness from the goddess of the unmentionable divine for my intrusion into the shapelessness of thought. i sacrifice a small creature with my humble request...
...get over it.<\center>
a thought crossed my mind yesterday about attempting to make a sturdy structure from relatively weak materials to test the strength of the structure itself. cardboard or maybe even papier-mache... this should be a good test for some design concepts rolling around this head. or how about an attempt to make the lightest deck to be able to support my average (190 lbs) frame. yeah, maybe that's something to try this weekend. in the next few weeks i'll also try to push out a deck a day for about 5 days. hmmmmmm, i don't know, i still wanna try to build a cardboard deck just because it's possible.
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never thought of myself as a genius...
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On 3/23/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
'cause it's just too hard to remember where i hid all the bodies.
but ya know, i kinda like the sound of... god
the great thing about skateboarding is that coming up with a shape that is rideable is well within reach of most people out there. making decks is possible and materials are available at accomplishing this in so many different levels.
it's just about knowing the rules cause we all know you're gonna break them.
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I told you so!!
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On 3/23/2005 DAve G
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
FatBoy... That's what I've been eluding to for years..In code of course. Alan is a borderline, and I'm not sure about the Universe being a cell upon a giants finger nail, but I can assure you there's a resin stain 'tween the forefinger and thumb nail!!!
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shapeshifter
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On 3/23/2005
Fatboy
wrote in from
United States
(67.94.nnn.nnn)
Al, how do you keep your head from exploding? WOW!!! It's like reading Michelangelo when you type! I can visually see what you're saying - it's frightening - AND amazing at the same time!!
all I can think of is Donald Sutherland in the bathtub - "you mean..........our entire universe could just be one cell in the fingernail of some giant being?"
You are clearly a genius! Or a borderline serial killer!!! But I mean that in the nicest, most respectful way, my friend! Keep up the brainstorming, I love it!!
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twisted shoe?
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On 3/22/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
like those ceribal palsy shoes:?
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so nice to find open mind...
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On 3/22/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
when first starting out attempting a contour on the top side of the deck to affect the foot’s position or cant i only had ready made blanks to contend with. as we progressed into vacuum bagged composite structures we found worlds of possibilities open to us and that’s when things really started taking shape.
once one understands that the surface of the deck’s shape doesn’t necessarily have to conform to the lower deck’s contour then and only then can one realize the possibility of defining the flex with shape alone. this changes everything. where at one time the outline of a shape dictated where the deck would be most likely to flex, one can now expect to put the flex anywhere other than the skinniest part of the template.
by using the contour to arrive at a structural solution it is possible to make a deck that performs harmoniously with the way our bodies are designed.
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taking that a step further...
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On 3/22/2005 duane
wrote in from
United States
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
I was kidding, a bit, but it brings up a point worth mentioning...that contours on the deck can be a very good thing. Slalomers who use toe blocks to prevent foot malfuncions know this, and the foam bevels that someone was selling to put on top to add false concave (but while retaining proper flex) are another good example. In fact a kicktail itself is a third, especially if you go back to the original iterations which were simply wedge blocks glued to otherwise flat boards (I still have a soft spot for block tails, they hold your feet real nice)
Twists, funky off-angles that function like built-in wedges (think Lanyachtz R3 and Bozi wedge nose), and other nonsense invariably throw things off and ride like crap. The resulting convoluted laminate may fail (LY R4) The flex is ruined if you want it, and turning angle screwed up. Feet do not sit well on the folds that are formed by plywoods forced to change contours. I like to select turning angles with my trucks. Heavily dropped boards are stable but turn poorly, no leverage, so you have to slide turns (good thing they slide easy, but that's bad, no ?)
Yet, I do like the possibility of having my foot or feet firmly planted, and granted unusual leverage. False contour applied to the top of an otherwise routine board is a very good way to do this. If foam and other non-structural material, it won't mess up the flex or be heavy. For speedboards, maybe structural would be good, the added depth would give outrageous stiffness.
hmm, I may have to try this, I've got some blanks, foam, and fiber just sitting there. My speedboard is also looking tatty, too many nose impacts.
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thanks
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On 3/22/2005 whatever
wrote in from
United States
(209.137.nnn.nnn)
thanks tiremarx
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birkenstocks?
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On 3/22/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...or would you prefer pumps?
dood, that's hilarious, almost had me doin' the coffee geyser thing, really like the logic though. the only thing that gets me about the crooked shoes is that the position of the foot remains constant even when the rider position is shifted. it just wouldn't seem right to me.
consider this: if one were to take the previously mentioned angled riser pads and used them for mounting a deck which is straight (not twisted or warped). they'd wind up with a setup that looks topsy turvy especially when no weight is applied to the deck. as soon as someone steps on the deck though they'd find that everything levels out. second thing they might notice is that there would be some tension between them and the riding surface. think about the issues that would arise from this experiment. consider what would happen if they should encounter a loose pebble. this is a major issue with decks that twist.
come to think of it i've seen a lot of people who walk around in crooked shoes... bet they don't know that all they need is a twisted deck to live in the perfect world of tomorrow.
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staright and crooked
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On 3/22/2005 Duane
wrote in from
United States
(68.15.nnn.nnn)
wouldn't it be easier to have a straight board, and twisted shoes ?
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twist one up...
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On 3/21/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...then make up a set of angled risers. not the usual angle though, have them so that offset the kingpin to the left or the right (depending on wheather it's the front or back truck) to counter the effects on the twist. when you wind up with a twisted deck with the trucks aligned as straight as possible you should be able to realize certain advantages.
you have to realize that the twisted deck was never really practical. my only intent was to study certain aspects of it and its effects. then when someone i knew decided to bring it around as something he worked on too i became incensed but eventually forgave him (that was 20 years ago). the guy tried to pull the same crap with the wicked recently and i found myself on the defense all over again (live'n learn). these days i make every attempt to remove and prevent twist on the decks which we make. i only brought up the subject because it fit the "daisies and rainy daze" routine.
yeah tod.
best advice for someone who'd like to learn about shaping: try making the same deck at least 5 times before moving onto another project. doing so will alow you to get closer to mastering that shape with various materials. once you've gotten to the point of making 20 or more of the same deck you've probably arrived. then as cnova put it the other day "when you've realized that there are several unfinished prototypes that will never get done, that's when you know you are real close to the final product".
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Longboard building wood
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On 3/21/2005
JoshL
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.158.nnn.nnn)
Hi
I am hoping to build a few boards in the Easter holiday (I have 3 weeks off).
I am thinking of a 36" board for carving and some sliding, with about 2cm of camber made from 3 laminations of 3mm birch plywood.
I am having trouble finding this ply in England, the majority seems to be 3mm birch FACED ply.
Do you think that this will be suitable?
The boards will be finished with polyurethane varnish, does anyone know if I can inkjet print an image onto some paper (I was thinking tissue paper), and wet it out into the varnish as done with surfboards?
Cheers
Josh L
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twist'n
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On 3/20/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
actually i can always tell the difference a twisted deck makes,,it's always worse.
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ridin in the rain...
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On 3/20/2005 tiremarx
wrote in from
Canada
(207.216.nnn.nnn)
as long as you take care of the board, you'll be fine.
all my boards where the wood is exposed (either no varnish on the edges or its just worn off) have wax rubbed into the edges too keep water out.
i always fill truck mounting holes with marine varnish as i'm putting the bolts in, keep the water out of there. the griptape wears away faster as it gets wet, but griptape is cheap. the most dangerous part, is the bearings. they get real messed up from ridin in the rain. learn to clean the bearings before you ride in the wet, definetely. i always clean them after they get wet. they will still get damaged, just from all the silt that riding wet roads stuffs into your wheels, but if you clean them, its not too terribly bad.
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wet
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On 3/20/2005 monkey poo
wrote in from
United States
(209.137.nnn.nnn)
is bad for your wheels/trucks/deck to ride when its wet out
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Shapeshifter???
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On 3/19/2005
Tod
wrote in from
United States
(12.148.nnn.nnn)
You going to Athens, GA ????
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slight twist
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On 3/19/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
funny how a misplased "the" makes it sounds like one likes the way they smell...
...no biggie, anyway the twist on the the veriflex el gato wasn't easily noticeable to the naked eye. it retained all of its concave but it just musta felt wrong because my brother david relinquished his favorite ride for some reason he couldn't verbalize at the time. only after careful scrutiny did i realize why it worked me and not for him.
frontside backside rock 'n rolls no prob. just setup the frontside so that you're legs are crossed when the deck levels out at the top. now, if you can't figure out why the twisted deck creates a preference, guess it wouldn't matter to you anyway. if you check out every deck in your shop you'll probabably find a few imperfect alignments now and again. now take one for a spin. if you can't tell the difference... sumpin' stinks.
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twisted
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On 3/19/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
how does a twisted board help a goofy or regular footed? let's say it holds the foot in place for a basic rock'n roll(backside) even if you can't do and never plan on trying to learn a frontside rock n roll,surely there's some frontside move where the lack of concave would let your foot slip easier.
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this may hurt a little
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On 3/19/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
well, now that you mention it, my brother discovered that he had left his deck outside one rainy afternoon. the result was a warped deck that left it pushing up daisies for his regular footed riding style...
...i on the other hand found that the twisted deck accentuated the performance for goofy footers. for the last 25 years i've dabbled in recreating this. Several prototypes and years later i eventually found that i could emulate the features that were advantageous for both riding styles on a single deck. another development that came out of this was a friend’s truck technology.
a short list of inspirations include:
riding skateboards
different styles of riding
one’s building material and its inherent qualities
riding other shaper’s products
beer
other indulgences
that dimple high up on a ladies thigh when viewed from behind
conversations w/other serious riders
your eyes can pick up more detail than you can measure
your instincts will whisper in your ear
your sense of touch will illuminate what you cannot see
and your sense of smell will tell you when you’re the smoking quality stuff...
...now, what was it that we were talking about?
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Thanks, man
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On 3/18/2005 Newport Beach board maker
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
Thanks shapeshifter for that link.
Getting in touch with "the man" might just be a little too heavy for this novice. If the design gets jacked, I'll know who they got it from. It's all about the art, right? Much love.
For another question,
Without giving too much away, where do you guys get your design inspiration from (If anyone says "daisies and rainy afternoons" I'm might have to hurt someone!)
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7075
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On 3/17/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
I've asked a couple times about the comparable price of 6061,it's not a lot cheaper,but i think when you "go to mass production" those robot machines need to be slowed a bit,and work time for the robots is really expensive,that's when 7075 becomes quite a bit more expensive. Most of the robot machine shops clean up the chips and recycle so you save money on sleeping pills. Thing being the way they are,to be in the truck business,you should work at it full time,rent insurance,promotion........the profit margins need to be relatively high,then distributors to move serious numbers gotta have distributors,and finally shops. A little increase at the very start blows up the final price. It's way to early to be concerned about the weight of your chips, i usually look for ways to make more chips or at least i worry more about the strength to weight of the part. I use one inch thick metal for my hangers,i'm not gonna explain to much(to late for that huh:)if you look back there's pics somewhere.
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Metal for trucks
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On 3/16/2005
Fitz aka "that other guy"
wrote in from
Australia
(203.164.nnn.nnn)
Hey SC,
I should have asked before. What stage are you at with your trucks? Proto or production.
Casting is an efficent way to mass produce your trucks however the tooling costs upfront for the patterns can set you back alot of cash. Also the casting process makes the ally porous and prone to breakage unless the right techniques are used for corners and wall section.
On the other hand when you machine them from solid billet there's alot of swarf (metal chips) that goes to waste in machining.
I made mine from solid billet and when I weighed the finish product, 65% went to waste. I only made 2 sets upfront so I was able to sleep alright that night. :)
I'm doin proto developement at the moment with manual machines and oldskool knowhow and once the recipe is right I'm going to model it in 3d and make a few sets using 5 axis CNC mills at work. I've already finished modelling my own design for floating axle hangers made from 1 piece solid billet. Can't wait to get em goin with my own spec baseplates.
Just remember not to get too hooked up on techy stuff and the only way your gonna find out if something works or not is to ride it. Speaking of which, I'm goin for a roll.
Cya
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