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| Truck Reviews (15215 Posts)
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three trucks and six wheels
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On 10/31/2006 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
talk about apples and oranges, that's not even close, probabely why they disqualify that type of radically different equipment(not that i approve)in a class of racing where six wheels and three trucks was the standard it could be argued that a lighter set of three trucks could change direction faster and be quicker through the course.Oh well just another two cents,at least this page got interesting.
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weight
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On 10/31/2006 shnitzel
wrote in from
Canada
(24.71.nnn.nnn)
see, you all prefer different tracks than myself... i am a lighter guy, not as light as some but lighter than say bricin..... so to keep up with him at maryhill with an uphill wind i'd need to add say about 200lbs to my body weight. and im not into riding a 200lb board or set of shoes. so i sit behind him, wait, wait, wait, relax, store energy while he tucks his ass off and then i'll pass him in one of the bottom corners. thats the only game i can play on a track like that in those conditions. and thats why i prefer not to race that style of track. downhill wind at maryhill, now that another story!!!!
i prefer the hairy, quick accelerating, challenging track. and on a track like this weight works opposite. the less you weigh the easier to make the turn, less braking and all that.
i dont think your seeing my analogy correctly. lets compare it to a snowboard now. doesnt matter if i weigh 120lbs or 250lbs. a light snowboard will react / ride much different than a heavy one. heavy will plow through chop and cookies much better than a light board. but a light board is much easier to throw a quick speed check heading for a jump or something. much like how i control my speed through corners when racing on a track like paskapoo this year. BEST TRACK EVER!!!!!!!!!
long story short, who cares. its all what ya prefer, what kind of tools you have access too, what kind of budget you have access too, whether you can convince you own mind that it doesnt make a difference... whatever.... but i myself do care, mental or not, for my racing style i prefer a very light overall deck. and every seatbelt i can remove makes a bit of overall difference. ha ha ha ha
wheres old dupin out there... he's been known to wear some chain-mail at the odd event... ask him how that turned out for him ;) ha ha ha. miss ya doug.
shnitz
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Ti why?
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On 10/31/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(204.78.nnn.nnn)
All good points...i think this is why i was always amazed at the "necessity " or Titanium axles on Rads...they mattered THAT much??
Schnitzel, you made a good comparison with your Honda...but using that same comparison, wouldnt it make more sense for a rider to get in better shape and lose some pounds and work on their body fat % to get more active mass?? That would seem to make sense
Until...
...you face a little wind on race day and all of the sudden that extra body mass provides inertia that the lightweight skaters cant achieve.
I guess what i'm saying is there is SO much going on, that a little weight under the board here and there doesnt make a difference....not until you start talking about the kind of weight that makes it difficult to throw your board around
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Fyre weight
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On 10/31/2006 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(69.165.nnn.nnn)
Another bit of 'extra mass' that these trucks will help eliminate is the combined weight of added risers/wedges (Rubber RAD-PADS aren't light!) and extra-long mounting hardware, provided, that is, that the rider picks the geometry that suits their immediate needs.
Wheel choice will actually affect weight more than trucks anyway. Wheel's mass is one of those tricky things, where once they're rolling, you Multiply the weight by 3.14 (Pi) and that's you're inertial mass value. Anyone here waiting for helium-filled tubeless urethane radials? [Well, besides me and JG] Just a Reality Check, folks.
Just as Chris said, your Shoe Choice will affect the mass down near the feet more-so than truck choice will.
Besides, I've only had Huck + Yetz really try for kickflipping a Slalom board with any seriousness, even though I'm guilty of grinding coping with a Turner, the truck here is meant to make better turns.
I'll take some extra mass down there IF it means I get better response and traction !!
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weight
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On 10/30/2006 shnitzel
wrote in from
Canada
(24.71.nnn.nnn)
im not talking about rolling down a hill weight....
take you wigglers for example, from what i understand and have half ass replicated, you load up your board in the middle of your turn and snap, almost jump into the next turn.... so the lighter the board the easier to make the small little vehicle your riding follow your feet as you leap into the next turn.
and as for speedboard racing, i prefer the light board for sudden drifts if i need them. lighter boards are easier to kick around when ya need. heavy boards are stable and easy to ride, light boards quicker turning and more responsive.
but on another note, nice looking truck!
shnitz
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Weighing In
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On 10/30/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Personally, I'm not worried about the weight of trucks. But as someone who will be making trucks for others, I am worried about "guys who worry" about the weight. And since adding weight is always easy, it makes sense to make them as light as possible without removing the strength and structural integrity of the parts. I've been having great luck with tall, narrow, and heavy equipment in both slalom and downhill lately. I'm getting great leverage, quick turning with greater downforce and less sideloads, more traction, and more momentum. I've run slalom boards with 3 trucks and 6 Gumballs on a heavy deck and won on it several times. But for those who aren't willing to try what I ride, consider the following.
The difference in the size of the human foot and the shoe that covers it will differ in weight way more than slalom trucks. I weigh about thirty times more than that of my board. My trucks only account for about a third of the complete board. The difference in the weight of one truck is less than one fourth of the weight of another. So the difference in the weight of trucks is less than a third of 1%. If think that there are more important concerns in slalom that trying to save 1/360th of the total mass rolling down the hill or moving side to side. If you want to save on some weight, take off those ridiculous big thick rubber wedge pads and that tall mounting hardware!
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weight
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On 10/30/2006 shnitzel
wrote in from
Canada
(24.71.nnn.nnn)
1983 civic, pulled the rear seats, seatblets, interior, all the unesesarys.... why??? for fun, for 1/4 mile times.... for something to do on a weekend... to get it down to 1800 lbs with me in it and gas.
cadilac, solid, very smooth on a long straight road... however, my friends 1280lb super 7 replica will kick the s#@! out of it in a parking lot or hill climb.
my race board, i make it as light as i can. and reducing each truck by 50 grams or whatever DOES help. especially if you can shave 50 grams off each wheel, and a bit from the deck. next think youve saved a substantial amount.
the skateboard is the vehicle, i dont think rider weight can be accounted here. ive changed weight up and down a LOT over the last 7 years of racing. and allways preffered a lighter board. more control, quicker responding. but thats my preference.
so yes, include me with my old man herbn. give me some stats. i know the weight of my trux, and they are cast aluminum, titanium axle with shaved baseplates. so there. ha ha ha ha
shnitz
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that's true, but....
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On 10/30/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(24.192.nnn.nnn)
...obviously, i'm no pro....i'm just having a hard time grasping the idea that the weight difference between, for instance, a Radikal and an Indy makes that much of a difference in performance...sure, lighter is better when it comes to a matter of considerable weight, as in a 10 ply wood deck vs carbon fiber...but i wonder how much of a difference the miniscule amounts you guys are tossing around here actually matter....
just my thoughts
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grams
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On 10/30/2006 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
whatever measurement, i just thought i'd go euro for the GOG guy,one or two or five, no big deal. But it's just a number if one is say 300 measly grams and the other is 400 or 450 then you have a difference that's worth talking about, whether it's an inertia factor for slalom, a heavy board will want to do a straight line and offer more resistance to turning,or on a DH board with aweight limit grams saved on trucks can be added to the wheels(bigger) or the deck,stiffer more stable.Besides this whole thing is absurd to someone outside of skating,a baseball fan would say,"Ok a web page dedicated to the discussion of a part of a skateboard,now that is rediculous"
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grams are for narcotics, not trucks
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On 10/30/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(24.192.nnn.nnn)
ok...this is just insane already....counting weight in grams in trucks?.....seriously, that's getting stupid already...so you cut a half ounce in weight...make it an ounce...hell make it two...who really cares?....the CLOTHES you have on, the burger you ate yesterday or that one extra PBR youre still carrying in your gut make up more weight than that....when riders range dozens of pounds between each other are you actually convinced that a few grams here or there make a difference?....it's good shop talk and all, but seriously ....it's about as lame as you can get..
And now for something completely ironic...
Hey Donald...did ya catch the irony in CC posting a pic of a state-of-the-art truck on an Ick Stick of all things?....that, after your reply on outdated shapes and technology to WT's post on SS.com?.........life's funny, huh?
CC.....skating on a rebuilt shoulder 8 weeks out of surgery could absolutely ruin your winter....forget falling, be concerned about overstretching those freshly nipped tendons
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wait?
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On 10/30/2006 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
well....how many grams?
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Truck Weight
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On 10/30/2006 Michael
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(87.114.nnn.nnn)
Knowing Chris I have no doubt he modelled the trucks, and others, in every combination on his system, geez I even saw him model cones on his computer!.....
me....Id have asked Richy to weigh them for me!
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Fully Loaded
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On 10/30/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Donald, Billet aluminum makes for very strong trucks, and there's no reason to believe that either of our trucks would fail. Structural design would be more critical in cast versions.
Actually Herbn, both top AND bottom bushings are compressed - and evenly at that. When the locknut is tightened, the bottom bushing moves up toward the underside of the bushing seat, while the top bushing moves down. Since there is no spherical bearing between the bushings, and because the kingpin is no longer bearing the weight of the rider, the bushings become a more pure compression system and turn like butter. It's easy to stabilize them though, by using harder and/or wider bushings. My bushings are taller than everyone else's, but just about any bushing (Khiro, Radikal, Randal, Tracker, Indy) will work. The steering angle never changes, no matter much you tighten them. I'm not attempting to do "universal" angles for now. I'm just making 20, 25, 30, 35, 45, 50, 55, and 60 degree baseplates. The baseplates are just a chunk of aluminum, two pivot pins, and two 1/2" locknuts. When you remove the two locknuts, the entire hanger assembly slides and maintains your bushing's preload for convenient hanger swapping. You take off the kingpin nut only when you want to change the bushings. You could use nylon spherical bearings, but I'm using steel.
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thanks chris
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On 10/29/2006
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(84.62.nnn.nnn)
thanks for the professional answer.
about strength:we have those trucks now for almost 9 months in practical use with not one complaint.i guess that's a good result regarding strength of parts.
besides that i like what you are doing and it's good for the sport.
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interesting
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On 10/29/2006 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
but damn, i was waiting for another donald20 tyraid,silly me also ,thinking you might be approximating.You really only tension/preload the outer bushing,i don't know if this even matters.I guess there are some small shims in the ball joint area so slight angle changes can be made,but that does change the center to center dimension, well only a little.All the kingpins look a bit heavy the bearings are.... delrin?
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Weight Lifting
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On 10/29/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Donald, With the click of a button, I can tell what Fyres, Radikals, and GOGs weigh in a variety of different materials. These metals don't really vary in weight, and I've gotten pretty darn good at modeling part dimensions from pictures. I can put them on a scale and see how close I am, but the deltas have been so small that a skater could never feel the difference. I can also tell where they are strong, weak, and how to optimize the strength to weight ratio, but I'm only interested in doing that with my trucks.
Fyre Backs
Fyre Fronts
Fyre Trucks
Herbn, Fyre Trucks are for slalom trucks. Liquid Trucks are for Downhill and Longboarding. The Fyre will come first, and the beefier/wider Liquid will follow with more of a "grind friendly" design. I'll be bringing 20, 25, 30, 45, 50, 55, and 60 degree versions to the Dixie Cup this weekend. Barker may be the only guy racing on them, but there's always that possibilty that some other crazy may want to mount 'em up on raceday, or I may do something stupid and jump into the fray myself. I'm currently #2 on the waiting list and climbing. I'm healthy enough to race, but not healthy enough to fall...
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educated guess
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On 10/29/2006 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
steel ball joints weigh alot. It would take alot of aluminum and delrin to make up the weight of a ball joint or two,and the gog guys claim a heavy duty kingpin. Well heavy duty is cool,heavyduty is usually safe,heavyduty is durable, but then when something is heavyduty, someone will point out the heavy.I've looked over at "the other" web site,i'm about to look again, but i didn't see any pics of this "frye truck" or chaput's fluid, are they the same? new name? I though we where supposed to be innundated with gog's by now.
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gog's and fyre
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On 10/29/2006 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(207.215.nnn.nnn)
I think CC said it would be heavier (though not much)...stir away.
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chaput
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On 10/29/2006
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(88.76.nnn.nnn)
just one question:
how can you say that your truck won't be heavier than a G.O.G.?
only richy and jason have those trucks at the moment.
no s#@!stirring intended but i value you as a professional to the bone.
that sentence makes me wonder a bit
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The New Bennetts
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On 10/28/2006
Paul Howard
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
I wrote everything at length on the General Truck Discussion Forum on www_slalomskateboarder_com so I don't want to say it all again here.
In short, I thought that for a front truck in slalom, they're pretty good for a stock truck. They turn tight and smooth. A lot like a Tracker RT-X of the same width if mounted with the same hardness bushings and wedging, maybe tighter and maybe smoother. Maybe, maybe not. Tomorrow I'll put them through a real test of cones on a techy Tight course on a slope instead of a flat tight course of 13 cones in front of my apartment like last night.
The Big Red Bushings for me at 170 lbs are WAY too hard for a front truck so I put in some Stims and Khiro combinations with "doughnuts" cut from Khiro Barrell bushings to add the needed height to replace the space of those tall Bennett bushings.
The alignment isn't perfect but if you're handy with tools and like to dink around with your trucks, you'll know what to do(or you can read what I wrote on the "other" site). Or you can email me.
Yes, they really are turny the way we all liked to TURN back in the 70's. If you like that sort of ride and don't plan on riding them for techno street or on coping/parks/edges/big drops, and want to carve a lot of quick tight smooth turns, these are for you.
That's my 2 Cents - Paul
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The Weight of Fyre
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On 10/27/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
The Fyre Truck won't be much heavier than the Radikal or GOGs. The Fyre has it's second pivot on the other side of the axle, but it doesn't have one between the bushings like the others. The function, performance, flexibilty, and ease of use make it a great trade off for a bit of extra weight.
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new bennetts 5.0
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On 10/27/2006 toddc
wrote in from
United States
(207.215.nnn.nnn)
Mounted and teste mine today - I got the black ones - was tired of the back order of the silvers, and they look like they silvers dippedin black paint/gunk. Not great looking up close, but cool from afar.
Rode them a little today and they feel great - I was always a fan - and still am. Very quick, very turny. Of the classic design (non randall) trucks, I like them more than trackers or the others I've ridden n the past few year. The rear could probably use some turning taken out,it really comes around, but I kind of like that "surfy" feel of driving a turn off the rear.
Glad I got a set!
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The New Bennetts
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On 10/27/2006 Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(64.5.nnn.nnn)
Just got mine today in the 4.3" hangers. I'm at work looking at them. They look pretty good for a stock truck as far as eyeballing them at arms-length for straight axles. I'll give the hangers the "wheel spin" test tonight for alignment of the axle and report on that and the bearing interface and locknuts to see if they are 90 degrees or not. Hopefully in the next 2 days I'll be able to put them on my tight slalom deck and see how they work with cones. Adios-P
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fyre
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On 10/27/2006 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.139.nnn.nnn)
i had similar ideas before, but i thought the design would look aesthetically 'ugly' and would be heavy with the extra pivot. but what do i know? ;-) .....
chaput, what's the weight?
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Fyre at will
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On 10/25/2006
Mike
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
I just checked out the spy photos on Silverfish Longboarding .com. Looks pretty cool and Chaput is explaining them a little. Anyone know what theyre going to cost?
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