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| Truck Reviews (15215 Posts)
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Biting remarks
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On 12/22/2006 Michael
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(87.114.nnn.nnn)
Erik, I dont think the NCDSA forum is at all close minded. In fact its precisely becuase the forum is open minded that different opinions get aired. I have a set of PVDs with limiters on them. Some racers reported that hitting the limit gave a bounce back effect which they liked and felt it improved their race times. Me, I use the limiters to run big wheels on a deck that might otherwise get wheel bite.
To say that slalom racers arnt open to innovations isnt factually correct. Racers do accept innovations that improve their times. Some racers just like different things, thats all. Some would rather use a smaller wheel, use cutouts or wheel wells, or perhaps stiffer bushing, or bushing with inserts in them (which also have a limiting effect).
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Ok, ok, you're close-minded, I get it
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On 12/22/2006 Erik
wrote in from
United States
(147.145.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
Very well. As I said earlier, I am not going to get into an argument about these trucks. I ride them and swear by them from real, practical experience, as a street or longboard truck, not theory or manufacturer endorsed. I said before, they are not racing or slalom trucks. I am a street skater and have been for more than 20 years. Yes, we turn, We turn a lot. The point, which I think you missed, is that these trucks turn like similar trucks, just no wheel bite.
Also as I said before, I posted them here because I noticed that there was discussion about wheel bite and I thought I'd join in with an example truck. I regret having joined this ncdsa forum, since it seems to me this community is very close-minded and not open to new ideas or alternatives. I'm not going to rebutt your comments even though I'm dying to get into the math of the forces of turning versus the forces of street skating and prove you wrong scientifically, since it's probably wasted on you.
Cheers,
-Erik
Ok, sorry, can't resist. Yes, education goes a long way. Your solution is to jack up your board way off the ground. To use your car analogy (yours was flawed anyhow, since a car turns by steering the wheels while a skateboard turns by tilting the platform, and any rubbing occurs due to the suspension), jack up your car and then go around a sharp curve quickly. Then you can blab about your education while you're climbing out of your upside-down car.
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G.O.G. Retrofit Info
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On 12/22/2006
Maria C./SK8KINGS
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
Just to be sure everyone knows, I have been in direct contact with all customers who purchased G.O.G. Trucks through SK8KINGS since the recall began early this month. We're working with Germany to get the retrofit process handled as quickly and efficiently as possible. As soon as all trucks are received -- we'll move on to phase II. Thanks to everyone for their cooperation so far and I will continue to update those customers directly.
I'm not sure who "agog owner" is below since I don't recognize the e-mail addy and there is no name attached to that post -- but if you have somehow procured a G.O.G. Truck from another source and need assistance with the retrofit process, please contact me directly without delay. My e-mail is listed. Thanks.
PS -- Rear G.O.G. trucks will be available for pre-order on our website after the Christmas holiday next week. Watch Vendor's Corner for more announcements and info.
Hope you all have a great holiday weekend! Take care!
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Turning Without Limits
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On 12/22/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(71.254.nnn.nnn)
What you are saying sounds more like an endorsement from the manufacturer than what a skater would actually experience. First of all the truck that you pictured for all intents and purposes, is just another truck. The kingpin is short, the bushings are short (and probably hard), and it fundamentally won't turn any better (or worse) than the multitude of cast "street" trucks out on the market. Let me guess - the hanger is 5" wide. I'm sure that the geometry is identical to the "best selling" trucks, which is nice and safe (as far as potential sales go), but the axle is set low, predisposing it to wheelbite in the first place. There's nothing new in the pivot cup, nothing to reduce slop in the bushing seats, a "new-school only" hole pattern, a 5/16" nominal axle... ... oh sorry, I dozed off for a minute... ...ahh yes, the turn limiters. The problem that I see here is that the kids who ride street don't turn. They don't need turn limiters. They tighten their trucks up and use hard bushings to do flip tricks. Wheels and trucks are used as "landing gear".
The skaters who like to carve want trucks that turn, not simply a wider version of a truck that doesn't turn. They want longer kingpins, bigger, taller, higher rebound bushings, a variety of baseplate angles, higher 8mm axles, precision steering, and often a choice of hole patterns to use with their carve boards, slalom boards, downhill boards, pumping boards, and transportation boards.
Yes, they like loose trucks, and yes, wheelbite sucks. But if someone sets the screw on a turn limiter while standing on their board and just leaning, they are NOT simulating the same kind of forces that riding at speed will give them. Realistically, someone is going to have to squat down while leaning over and put their fingers between the top of the wheel and the underside of the deck, just to "feel" how big the gap is. Or maybe he looks in the mirror? He may or may not be standing in the same place as when he is actually riding the board. Boards flex in EVERY direction. They twist torsionally, and the rails also flex downward (sideways off the baseplate). When someone lays down a hard carve, it is often with their feet position nearly (or directly) over the trucks, with their heels and toes extending off the rails. It is in this critical position that the highest g-forces can bend the deck down into a spinning wheel, even if the truck's steering has been limited. In other words, the "test" that you use for setting the turn limiters will give unsuspecting skaters a false sense of security. They may think that they have 1/4" of clearance, when what they really have is an accident waiting to happen.
When the trucks are very tight, it would be easy for a rider to come to the false conclusion that the reason that his trucks have stopped turning is because of the turn limiters, when actually it is because the bushings are fully compressed. If he loosens his trucks without re-adjusting the turn limiters, he's going to be in for a rude awakening on the next hard turn. The turn limiters didn't save him, they sucker-punched him.
This is not theory - this comes from real world experience using trucks with turn limiters. Even after setting turn limiters to what you THINK is a safe level of clearance, THE RIDER MUST TEST HOW THE DECK INTERACTS WITH THE WHEELS IN A VARIETY OF HARD CARVING TURNS. That's the ONLY way to know that the wheels won't bite in the most critical situations. And whenever the tension on the bushings is decreased, he has to re-test the clearance.
If I have a car with big tires that rub my fenders when I turn too sharp, I don't think that the solution is to prevent me from turning the steering wheel. The preferred solutions are found in allowing all of the steering, with none of the rubbing. Bigger fenders or lift kits, for example. Skateboarders who turn will want to be familiar with riser pads, properly positioned wheel wheels, cutouts or cutaway designs, smaller or heavily radiused wheels, taller or firmer bushings, etc. It's about increasing clearance, and not decreasing steering. A little education can go a long way in keeping skaters safe.
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Wheel bite
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On 12/21/2006 Erik
wrote in from
United States
(66.171.nnn.nnn)
Wow, Chris, sounds like you're really annoyed, and you've annoyed me in the process. ;) I don't agree with some of what you say, for example that you have to adjust the set screws when you adjust the bushings. The two are not related--the set screw adjustment and the bushing adjustment are perpendicular to each other, i.e. independent (the dot product of the two vectors is zero). Next, if a flexy board bottoms out, the middle will likely hit the ground well before the portion above the wheels hit the wheels (hence the term bottoming out, think catenary between the front and rear truck).
The hanger isn't going to flex too much (remember, 356-T6 aluminum is very rigid, and the grade 8 steel axle isn't helping the hanger flex either). Yes, the board will flex, the kingpin and baseplate may shift (lift on one side), and the bushings may flatten, which may reduce the wheel clearance. In that case, just set the clearance by the set screws to compensate, i.e. start with the minimum clearance under load and work the problem backwards to set the screws.
I believe (opinion only) these trucks are a vast improvement over similar style trucks without wheel bite set screws. They work wonderfully for regular street and longboard skateboards but I understand that these are absolutely by no means racing trucks. Anyway, I just thought I'd post them since they are related to some other comments made in the thread (i.e. I don't want to start a whole 'these trucks suck/these trucks rock' argument because this is a forum to discuss slalom/racing stuff, not street skating stuff.).
Cheers,
-Erik
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wheelbite stoppers
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On 12/21/2006
fitz
wrote in from
Australia
(220.236.nnn.nnn)
Another thing which bugs me the most is when you reach the limit of turn in the hanger its usually a very abrupt instead of a gradual stop.
I found this prob with stock R1 trucks and very soft bushes. you can get around it by opening the hole through the hanger for the kingpin but this can lead to soft bushes being squeezed through.
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bennett vector
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On 12/21/2006 arnold ziffel
wrote in from
United States
(66.215.nnn.nnn)
Thank you Mr B. for coming out of the woodwork and bringing back your truks. Turn baby turn. I,m a old fart who started skating again and tried riding these modern trucks. Modern as in stone age, where's the snap, where's the crackle, where's the pop. Bennett baby, baby Bennett, give me some truks that turn, give me some truks that burn. Vectors are biblical, baby.................
p.s. Top them off with some cambria wheels, basically road rider fours, or some zig zag reto's basically Sims pure juice but much faster. Oh did I mention to say baby...............
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Unlimited Turning
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On 12/21/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(71.254.nnn.nnn)
I hate turn limiters. They may prevent the truck from turning, but they don't necessarily prevent wheelbite. When you turn hard enough to bottom out the truck's steering, a couple of things happen. One is that the inside rail of the board flexes downward toward, and often all the way into, the wheel. The other is that the hanger and axle flex, also allowing the underside of the deck to encroach upon the wheel.
The bottom line is, you can't trust the turn limiter's ability to prevent wheelbite unless and until you tighten your bushings enough and/or adjust the turn limiters and TEST THEM BY LEANING THE BOARD AT SPEED to see if they'll bite. That's what we have to do now, without turn limiters.
Most turn limiters also have to be adjusted in two places, which is annoying. Many require an allen wrench, which is also annoying. Anytime that you adjust the tension on your bushings, you have to re-adjust your turn limiters, in two places, with an allen wrench, and maybe have them different from each other, which is annoying. I'm annoying myself even talking about them.
Seeing as I still have to check to make sure that my wheels won't bite, I'd rather not screw withw turn limiters.
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Wheel bite
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On 12/21/2006 Erik
wrote in from
United States
(147.145.nnn.nnn)
I noticed this thread regarding trucks and wheel bite. Alpha skateboard Company (www.alphaskate.com) has a truck that prevents wheel bite using a pair of set screws that contact the kingpin. You can ride the trucks as loose as you want without getting wheel bite (the set screws stop the hanger from pivoting beyond some angle). They have street and longboard trucks, not slalom or racing though.
They work great. A word of caution, they've patented the technology so if you're interested in going this route then look into the patents first or contact them.
Thanks,
-Erik
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G O G
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On 12/21/2006
Eddy Texas Outlaws
wrote in from
United States
(199.91.nnn.nnn)
I am guilty of not sending mine in Don. I spoke to Maria this week. I will get it out to her tommorow. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws
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G:O.G: INFO
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On 12/21/2006
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(84.62.nnn.nnn)
maria has to tell everybody how far she got collecting the trucks.once all trucks are in her hands the plan is to express them to germany,redo the trucks and express them back to maria.
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Gravity Thruster truck
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On 12/20/2006
conor
wrote in from
United States
(67.119.nnn.nnn)
hey has anybody ridden these gravity thrusters, i hear you mount your front truck on it and it makes it like a double pivot carver truck. or a surf feel. any thoughts?
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GOG replacement b'plates
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On 12/20/2006
Agog owner
wrote in from
United States
(71.166.nnn.nnn)
When will the replacement baseplates be shipping from Sk8kings?
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oh yeah
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On 12/20/2006
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(84.62.nnn.nnn)
forgot to mention that you can preorder the "racer x" truck at sk8kings.com
go for it,it definitely is the hottest rear truck so far.i was always low key on marketing those trucks,i'll make an exception this time because some very prominent racers are so in love with that babe and they all say the same about the rear truck:"HANDS DOWN,THE BEST REAR TRUCK EVER!!!"
as an added bonus to the superb feeling the truck delivers you can so easily change the angle of the truck.nobody offers that at the moment and nobody can touch the speed of adjusting/changing the angle.max. 60 secs and you are set.
this is so vital when you compete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
watch it come in BLACK.
call sk8kings to make a reservation now.these truck are going fast.
we already have a lot of preorders here in europe.maria didn't encourage people to preorder,but i'll do it now.
thanks to jason for all the input on that special truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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S.C.
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On 12/20/2006
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(84.62.nnn.nnn)
i was saying what you implied.
that's a good step forward.
the beefed up version looks unbreakable,maybe it is unbreakable?
it is unbreakable!
we took none of the ideas shown here,herbn was right about the copy factor he mentioned.we came up with something different which makes sense.
i don't want to go into detail,but it works great what frank did.
the rears are already ath the factory and will be cnced the next two weeks.
they have been modified to jason mitchel's input and will bear his name on each truck.
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Gruppe von Deutschland
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On 12/20/2006
sc
wrote in from
United States
(65.91.nnn.nnn)
Donald, are you saying that your hangers can be separated from the baseplate without removing the kingpin? If so, then I'm stoked. That's one of the big pains with Radikals.
If the new kingpipns are getting stuck, but the hangers can come off anyway, then there shouldn't be a problem, right?
I really want to see GoGs work out. I'm also eagerly awaiting the adjustable angle rear (and front) truck. Soon?
Thanks
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Holey Truck
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On 12/20/2006 Michael
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(87.114.nnn.nnn)
The Holeys are indeed great trucks. They are slightly narrower than the 180 Randals, and are reckoned to be made better, ie the baseplates and bushings are excellent. The hangars are drilled for lightness too, though weight is similar to a randal.
I believe milehighmark is yer man for them in the US, but try contacting Gavin at Holeytruck, his wifes Canadian so I reckon he'd know where to get them from.
http://holeytruck.com/
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G.O.G. stuck kingpin
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On 12/20/2006
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(84.62.nnn.nnn)
damn the kingpins got stuck in the new baseplates somehow.
i don't have to take the truck apart if i want to change the bushings.
what happened here?
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Info truck
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On 12/19/2006
Marc
wrote in from
Canada
(70.81.nnn.nnn)
A lot of people tell me that Randall truck are the best ?
I told it to my girlfriend and she told me that it wasn't true...
She tried a board in France with truck named Holey...
I would like to know what's the difference between randall and holey...
I practise carving, cruising, downhill...
Is it possible to find Holey truck in north america ? (Canada or USA)
Thanks
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Seismic trucks for sale
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On 12/18/2006
dan
wrote in from
United States
(68.194.nnn.nnn)
hey whatup, i have a pair of siesmic stable turn 105mm trucks for sale. im willingn to let them go pretty cheap. they were only used about a week then i got a new bboard and setup if anyone want them email me at kaharo1@towson.edu ill be happy to ship them to you
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fyre downhill
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On 12/17/2006 seth
wrote in from
Israel
(84.229.nnn.nnn)
would love to see a picture of the 7" setup and ready to go and not just a rendering. Things look different in real life and as a new downhill truck this sounds promising.
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Herbscenerio
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On 12/16/2006 Oldtimer
wrote in from
United States
(72.65.nnn.nnn)
I think we all/or mostly agree, that weight, weighs heavily on T.S. While not soo much on G.S. Can there truly be 3 "King" pins on a single axis?? Hmm? And I think getting into semi exotic metals detracts from one of Chris' selling points.If not mistaken, the idea is to produce an affordable, cast truck w/ true axles and great performance. But I'll leave those points to the man w/ the plan.
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fyre sl
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On 12/16/2006 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
the design looks so low stress,which is real cool. With three parallel kingpins all taking stresses the same way(well mostly) a ti kit would work for sure,with the main kingpin taking nothing but bushing tension(low for most uses even on the wider ones) it could even be aluminum(7075),delrin ball joints would probabely be a pretty safe bet too. Magnesium baseplate? it's a bulky piece that now takes stresses at three points instead of two,comparing to a regular truck,randal or indy style. It would be an interesting test to see if the weight of a slalom board effects it performance, you know what i think.
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Lien on my shoulder
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On 12/16/2006 Oldtimer
wrote in from
United States
(71.164.nnn.nnn)
C.C., is it a problem w/ the hanger butting into the base plate on severe lean, or does the shoulder you portray on the baseplate allow for adequate clearance?
Just wondering if it would "bottom out" if a too short bottom bushing were used? It's almost a perfect (anti wheelbite) opportunity if an adjustable screw etc.. where placed there. Can't wait to get a set!
Uhhmmm..Glad to see you're thinking of squaring off the kingpin 180 from itself! serves not only the purpose you stated, but also the reson I mentioned it on the Fish. I'd like to think I contributed a small part of it's design(very small) but a viable one at that.
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Fyre production
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On 12/15/2006 Tim
wrote in from
Australia
(210.84.nnn.nnn)
What sort of time line are we looking at for availablity Chris?
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