|
|
|
| Truck Reviews (15215 Posts)
|
| Truck |
Review |
|
Axle correction
|
|
On 2/24/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Oops; Line 4+5 of my previous post should've read: "Since truck hangers are cast/molded metal, they are [NOT] very straight, anywhere."
Gotta quit typing with hot coffe in hand! ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
Axle switch tooling
|
|
On 2/24/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
To true a hanger's inside bore, you need to have an outer diameter that's close enough to 'spot on' that the rest of the inner bore can be kept somewhat concentric along it's depth. Since truck hangers are cast/molded metal, they are very straight, anywhere. So, you'd really want to turn an outer surface at one end, and do the same at the other, do a 'run out check' to see how much wobble there is at one end vs. the other. Get that trued best you can, and use a dog ear or some other secondary holder to keep the hanger lined up between the chuck and holder at the other end. You'll then need a second chuck to put your ream or thru-drill on. After all of that, you're probably going to be off by a few thou...
An easier way is to use a mill. Face off on end, then the other of the hanger. Check for perpendicularity, put a ream in the mill, and center it, punch it thru. That would give you similar results with far less work.
Following along the original axle bore with a ream set just under (-.01") your intended new-axle diameter, then spinning that to check how concentric the bore is, would be a better way on a lathe, as you can 'sneak up on' the finish bore you want, and nudge the concentricity with a single-flute boring tool, even though those can't bore inwards very far.
BTW, you'd be wise to check the old axle for straightness. It'll clue you in beforehand as to how bad the hanger's bore came out when molded. Ditto on the new axle. You want to be putting in fairly straight stock, or you might as well just hammer the bloody thing without any fanfare...
|
|
|
|
|
lathe
|
|
On 2/23/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i've never bored out a hanger with a lathe,not a production one. You would have to round the ends of the hanger to hold it in a lathe,and that would just be kind of aliegned with the original axle. clamping the truck and drilling with a hand drill is probabely just as good.
|
|
|
|
|
Late JB Weld Reply on 8mm-erizing trucks
|
|
On 2/23/2007 Paul Howard
wrote in from
United States
(67.171.nnn.nnn)
Yes, baking the JB WELD does make it harder, noticably harder.
Yes, you can bake it in an ordinary kitchen oven at about 200 degrees Fahrenheit.
I have had good results just being Lo-Teck and simple by over-boring the holes just with a regular drill bit a little bigger than 8mm and putting the hanger snugly in a vice and drilling approx 1/2 way into both ends. The question raised about axle alignment relative to the rest of the hanger is a very valid question and all I can say is that when I spin the finished hanger in a drill at slow speed, there was no wobble. HOWEVER, I think Herbn is on a better track alingnment-wise perhaps by using a lathe and some sort of drill bit arrangement to do the boring. I don't have access to a lathe so I really can't answer that, but the way I did it worked pretty well and my trucks were a noticable improvement afterward. Thanks- Paul
|
|
|
|
|
Pivotal differences inTracker's old-series trucks.
|
|
On 2/23/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
Tracker came out with the Gnarly series WAY before (um, like '78? I think) anyone else was thinking that thin pivot points were going to be a future issue in how well a truck survived being landed upon. [There were others, Energy Pool/Park,Indy's,Megatron] Tracker's had always used 'kinked' pivots (Indy's are kinda vertical), and that meant that vertical movement of the hanger could bring the pivot into direct contact with the baseplate at a potentially weak spot (the kinked area). On the old pre-Gnarly Trackers, the small pivot was also available with hard, thin pivot bushings that had very little turn-in resistance, and would last pretty long if they weren't impacted upon harshly. Geezer-X finally made a run of replacements after finding that there were a good number of skaters still wanting to use the old-series trucks, but had lost the pivot cups through attrition over time (I being one of those;Hoarded pivot bushings for a decade or two,trying to keep the Tracker viable).
Thick pivots and cups took that issue on deftly, But sacrificed the lesser-resistance manuverability that the old narrow pivots had enjoyed. It's interesting to note that Gnarly, Ultralight (plastic composite), Aggro, B-2, and current Dart/RTS Trackers all have the ability to interchange hangers and baseplates. Tracker did get it pretty much spot-on 30 years ago (and had going good before that) in terms of geometry (although Aggro + RTS bases are 'cranked up' a few more degrees for a quicker turn-in rate). What's kinda sad is that items like harder bushings (less steering resistance, slicker plastic) are really hard to find now, as the main need has been for shock absorbtion (which is a softer, but stickier, pivot bushing). Other Items formerly on the Tracker Parts list that've vanished are Copers (hard or soft) and Stimulator bushings, even conical machined axle spacers were once available.
This is not to say that Tracker has 'lost touch' with it's market share, but rather that those good ideas weren't worthwhile in a modern skate-it-and-toss-it-away marketplace. Seriously, who would've guessed that folks like me would still be not only using 35-year-old trucks, but Racing on them!? I did have a brief hope that the 're-issue' Trackers were going to use the pre-Gnarly pivots, but that wasn't the case. Still, if you've got reasonably hard + slick pivot cups, those re-issues will turn pretty well on a Slalom set-up, but will be outclassed by anything with a spherical ball pivot system in quickness and directness. Tracker has kept an eye on the Slalom, Longboard, re-issue[pool] and Downhill skateboard segments, and responded with some nice stuff. I've no doubt they could step it up another two notches and make dedicated high-end trucks that would put some of the customized/low volume/race-spec truck makers very nervous. Heck, if they just found the molds and formulas to Stimulators, they'd make many people very happy! I'm at fault there, though, as I could've kept Stims to myself, but I posted up here... Now they're too expensive for me to buy(though almost worth the money!). Hopefully, posts like this will get Tracker to understand that they can re-define the truck market if they fill in niches other companies never knew existed, or improve their current line to upgrades that would make them competitive at the high-end of the race-truck market. Or, they may feel that market is still too small to bother with..
|
|
|
|
|
Old Trackers?
|
|
On 2/23/2007
cam
wrote in from
Australia
(220.233.nnn.nnn)
Thats a shame that they dont make the old school style midtracks anymore. However, if they were so good how come they stopped making them? Is it because the new base plates are intended for use as a street truck?, or am i, most likely, wrong??
|
|
|
|
|
Trackers , Mid or Full
|
|
On 2/22/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.69.nnn.nnn)
The new ones are nice, burly and all, but....
The old narrow pivots, with the low-friction pivot cups (and then up-graded to an 8mm axle!) are the ride to have. Yes, you can go higher-tech, or more unique of a retro (Proccer, Lazer Slaloms, or Energy) and get a quicker truck, but for reliability and tunablility, OldSchool Trackers were the bomb. Also, a big bonus, imho, were the Copers made of white plastic (nylon?,delrin? Not sure, but hard,slick stuff that just flowed grinds). With those on, you could ride just One Board, and Race, ride a pool, grind local curbs, grab a bumber for the jaunt home, and then romp on the ramp in the yard, all on one board, one pair of trucks, only pausing to change a bushing (maybe wheels, though Blue C-70's seemed to rule everywhere).
I've got four fultrackers left, two mids, and maybe four sets of RTX/RTS's around on boards. The RTX's and RTS's get swapped out, but the Old Trackers stay. Too bad they didn't stay in the Tracker lineup....(with Copers)
|
|
|
|
|
Retiring Trucks
|
|
On 2/22/2007 AJ
wrote in from
Canada
(205.211.nnn.nnn)
after 30 years of riding through cones on those trucks, dont you think you should (deserve) to put them to rest on a shelf and upgrade to a more precisely built truck, i'm not saying a Rad or a Splitfire, but maybe if the PG splits were ever to leave the drawing board...
|
|
|
|
|
Midtracks for TS
|
|
On 2/22/2007
Pierre Gravel
wrote in from
Canada
(24.203.nnn.nnn)
I (still) use a small pivot Tracker midtrack as a front truck, with 18-20 degrees of wedge.
8mm axles and a shaved JimZ bushing bottom and a shaved yellow stim top. It works pretty good but guys on rads beat me all the time... must be the trucks. ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
Midtrackss
|
|
On 2/21/2007
cam
wrote in from
Australia
(220.233.nnn.nnn)
hey is anyone using midtracks for a bit of ts?? how do they go? what advice would you give to anyone using them for ts, in terms of bushings, and wedges?
im thinking of getting a set along with some retro 66mm ZigZags and puttin it all on a 27" board with high camber(2").
any thoughts on this setup??
il robably end up converting the axles over to 8mm.
anyway thanks
|
|
|
|
|
jb weld
|
|
On 2/17/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
sounds cool, if it actually worked,i guess it did, you should see quickly if hanger is truely centered on the axle, when you spin it in the lathe.The pivot doesn't swerve around? you could check it with the tool post,spinning things by hand(no motor)a lathe(metal) becomes a really good truing stand,i've trued up regular axles fairly well.I think if i went with that oversized bored out hanger technique i might be inclined to make a couple of pressed on sleeves for the axle,they would be pressed on to act like speedrings, then turn them down to fit in the bored out hanger and then fill things up with jb weld, i don't know if i would bother baking the jb weld, is it stonger when baked? or is it just impatience?, i would wait rather than risk over heating the jb weld.
|
|
|
|
|
8mm axle conversions again
|
|
On 2/17/2007
cam
wrote in from
Australia
(220.233.nnn.nnn)
wow thanks paul, im sure that will help me.
however, how do i bore out the axle hole?? do i use a lathe if so how, or just a drill with a slightly bigger than 8mm drill bit.
secondly how do you heat the JBweld to 200*F, can this be done in a kitchen oven??and how do you make sure that the hanger is strait when there isroom around the axle??
finally how do i face the hanger in a lathe??how do i hold it in position??
anyway thanks again.
|
|
|
|
|
Pauliwog's 2 Cents on 8mm Do It Yourself Axle Conversion
|
|
On 2/17/2007 Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(65.122.nnn.nnn)
Here's my take on the subject: If you push a standard BENT axle out of the hanger, the HANGER has a BENT HOLE in it. If you put a nice new shiny(or black) perfectly straight 8mm piece of rod with threads on each end into that same BENT HOLE, you will end up with a PERFECTLY BENT NEW 8mm AXLE.
What I have done multiple times with good success is to remove the axle, then overbore the hanger from both ends of the hanger j-u-s-t enough to allow the new axle to slide into the hanger with little or no impingement. Then, use JB WELD to fill the remaining space. I also add shims made from aluminum pop cans if needed. Then bake the whole mess in the oven at about 200 degrees F and this will make the JB WELD cure much faster and harder and yet the low heat will not change the temper of the aluminum nor the axle.
Next, put the hanger/axle into a lathe(or improvised lathe with an electric drill, workbench, wheel with bearings and some good clamps) and CAREFULLY, CAREFULLY, CAREFULLY face off those hanger ends to 90 degrees and make sure you don't cut/abrade into the axle. A good thing to do is put masking tape on the axle and as soon as you start tearing tape, replace the tape and ease-into it again. Take your time.
I've done this with RT-X, RT-S, Seismic, and a similar but different technique for TTC and Splitfire trucks(in which case I made jig to keep the 2 semi-axles in line). Most of this I have to credit learning from Wallgren, and learned more tidbits from Wax and Fluitt, except the "overbore-N-JB Weld-it" techique has been my contribution.
I still race on trucks I and Wallgren have rebuilt and YES, it does make a noticable difference in traction, speed, and just overall handling. Another modification is to change out the kingpins in your RT baseplates for longer 3/8" grade 8 bolts and use taller bushings. This will allow tighter smoother turns for the tight courses. This also will make a very noticable improvement. Good Luck - Paul
|
|
|
|
|
axles
|
|
On 2/16/2007
cam
wrote in from
Australia
(220.233.nnn.nnn)
thanks herbn i will look into it further. also thank you speed dealer, you could have prevented me from wasting my money.
One question, is the tubing you use hollow tubing or solid??
Second, would i have to put some sort of grip on the new axle to stop it moving when im tightenin axle locknuts??
Third, how do i get the old axle out???
thanks heaps you guys are a wealth of information.
|
|
|
|
|
Axles
|
|
On 2/16/2007
Speed-dealer.ca
wrote in from
Canada
(68.145.nnn.nnn)
herbn - Doesn't Oust sell 8mm axles? Or are they just the standard 5/16?
cam - Do some research before investing anything. There is 8mm 01 tool steal available, it's quite common and readily available, but you don't want to use it—its too brittle, unless you weigh 75 lbs.
|
|
|
|
|
8mm axle
|
|
On 2/16/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
If you could do all this stuff you probabely wouldn't be asking,but here goes anyway.1st you have to have a 8mm axle, there are no 8mm axles you can go to a skate shop and buy. 2nd then you'd have to make them, need at easiest 8mm steel,i use cromoly tubing thick wall. 3rd you need to be able to cut threads onto the steel,to cut 5/16x24(standard axle nuts) you need to be able to shave down the 8mm axle just a bit,a metal cutting lathe comes in here.All that done you need to knock out the old axle and press in your replacement.
|
|
|
|
|
modifying trucks... at home
|
|
On 2/16/2007
cam
wrote in from
Australia
(220.233.nnn.nnn)
hey im running a pretty tight budbet for my new slalom board and have decided to get tracker RTS/RTX 106mm combo. is there any way i can modify these trucks to make them perform better. can i face the hangers on a lathe?? can i remove the axle and replace it with an 8mm axle?if so how do i do this??
has anyone had any success doing this and if so can they please post some photos??
anyway thanks..
|
|
|
|
|
Chaput's Disertation
|
|
On 2/15/2007 Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(65.122.nnn.nnn)
Hmmmm, That was informative and interesting, really(no sarcasm). Some of that is why I swear by a MMW'd Seismic 130mm/30 degree as a rear truck on G/S and big general courses and once in great while use a MMW'd 100mm/30 degree Seismic on general courses that aren't tight (when I'm not usually using a Phase I Splitfire with the RT-X baseplate) both in conjuction with a nice matching-in-width twitchy 8mm'd/lathed RT-X in front.
OK, I can't let this post go by without asking: "WHERE ARE THOSE NICE TALL HIGH REBOUND BUSHINGS, ESPECIALLY THE SOFT ONES FOR THE FRONT TO REPLACE THE YELLOW TRACKER STIMULATOR(a moment of silence please)???? Adios-P
|
|
|
|
|
Offsets, etc.
|
|
On 2/15/2007
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(72.67.nnn.nnn)
Offset trucks work great when compared to the problematic truck that they replace. Tracker and Indy style trucks are inherently unstable trucks at speed as they have a lot of torsionally twisting "play" or "slop" in them. The weight of the rider is transferred onto the axle which is almost directly on top of the pivot cup. This is great for quick turning, but horrible for stability. What Randals, Radikals, Splitfires, TTC, and offset trucks do is to POSITION THE AXLES AWAY FROM THE PIVOT CUP. They load the bushing seats instead of the pivot cups and they tend to pivot with more precision and less slop. At shallower steering angles, they work even better. Radikal rear trucks take an inherently STABLE design (axles away from the pivot cup) and then swing the arms back in the WRONG direction and utimately make the truck less stable. It works well IN SPITE of the flawed logic, because the truck steers with precision, and the axles still aren't in a bad place - just not optimal place.
The flaw in the logic is because people have come to a false conclusion about the axle's position. They compare it to the position of the kingpin instead of the position of the pivot cup. They think that there is something magic about putting an axle inline with the kingpin. There isn't. That's the BUNK part of what Geezer-X is talking about. And many people are only looking at trucks with both kingpins and pivot cups. What about Seismics and PVDs and Fyre Trucks? Do they need to offset there axles? Which way, and why?
Standard trucks like Trackers, Indys, Radikals, GOGs, work like a hinge in that the angle changes as you tighten (and smash) down the bottom bushing. The bottom bushing must act as a support, a fulcrum, and also as part of the compression system. It's hard to ask a single bushing to do all of them well. It has to hold up the hanger, allow the hanger to teeter upon on, and has to help tension and stabilize the steering. That's asking too much. The reasons that PVDs and Fyre Trucks work so well is because they handle the load (the weight) of the rider completely differently. The hanger is supported in two places, the weight of the rider is not resting on the bottom bushings, slop is nearly nonexistent, the native angle of attack is preserved, they have strong, straight axles, and they work. The front and back trucks vary only in their baseplate angles. They provide a boatload of traction, and they steer easily because the bushings don't have to bear the brunt of the load. The Fyre Trucks in particular provide a full and uniform range of motion without the hanger interfering with the kingpin, washers, or nuts. The pivots pivot. The tensioners provide tension.
Forget about comparing the castor/rake of forks on a bike where only the front tire can turn, and wants to turn back on itself. If the same principles of bike/fork stability were in play, a Randal front and Tracker rear would be a stable combination and it is most asuredly is NOT!
I'm still working on the production of the Fyre Trucks and although progress has been made, I have to source many different parts from many different people and good help is hard to find. I don't want to make any committments based on the delivery dates of others that have already come and gone. It's frustrating, to say the least.
|
|
|
|
|
The
|
|
On 2/15/2007 Chuck Gill
wrote in from
United States
(192.249.nnn.nnn)
"You can't change the laws of physics. The offset dumbs down the rear truck and with negative wedging, it's dumbed down sufficiently that it tracks optimally."
Okay, I give up. Someone want to explain the "physics" of "dumbing down" a "truk" to me?
|
|
|
|
|
offsets
|
|
On 2/14/2007
Speed-dealer
wrote in from
Canada
(68.145.nnn.nnn)
Geezer-X wrote: "Offsets are complete and utter bunk, despite whatever success people may have had on them."
That's a rather strong declaration. I tend to question such sweeping generalizations with skepticism. However, in this case, I believe you're just wrong.
The increased traction of an offset truck in comparison to a non-offset rear truk of the same geometry is not just perceived, it's a reality. You can't change the laws of physics. The offset dumbs down the rear truck and with negative wedging, it's dumbed down sufficiently that it tracks optimally.
Will a traditional offset truck configuration out perform a split axle PVD style truck? While that is subjective on some level, ultimately the answer depends the geometry of the trucks and the style employed in riding them——rider style has a big impact on how a truck performs beyond any inherent limitations of the geometry.
|
|
|
|
|
FYRE Trucks
|
|
On 2/13/2007 somedude
wrote in from
United States
(69.143.nnn.nnn)
when will Fyre trucks go on the market
|
|
|
|
|
Rear Truck Traction to the MAX
|
|
On 2/13/2007 Lump of Coal
wrote in from
United States
(67.168.nnn.nnn)
If you mount your rear truck backwards and positive wedge it 45 degrees so the front(pivot) end is sticking up above the top of the deck(and acting as a foot placement device simultaneously) and the rear(kingpin end) is below the deck a good measure, the result will truly, truly amaze you. Oh yeah, you might have to fidget a little if you are using a chop-shop offset because of the steep angle involved and different placement of the wheels relative to the rest of the truck and deck. - L.O.C.
|
|
|
|
|
FYRE Trucks
|
|
On 2/13/2007
Cat
wrote in from
United States
(67.117.nnn.nnn)
I am by no means an expert on anything associated with skateboarding.
All I know is, I love to skate, compete & have fun doing it. If I win, fine, if I don't fine.
Ok, I'm lying--- I LOVE to win & will always search out new ways to have an upper edge on the competition.
I feel light years away from that, but last Saturday, was able to try Chris Chaput's new FYRE Trucks.
Like I said, I am pretty much oblivious when it comes to the technical aspect of anything having to do with skating.
On Saturday morning I ran a fairly tight slalom course on a board Chris had brought with him to San Demas. It was basically a shaped 2X4 with his trucks and wheels.
All I can say is WOW.
It was like a skier who has been skiing on a pair of old skis, and tries a run on the new parabolic skis. The parabolics turn with little or no effort, and really have been the driving force behind the influx of brand new skiers to the sport.
That is exactly what I found with the FYRE Trucks. They practically turn themselves.
As a beginning slalomer, only a little more than 6 months into it, I see only good things to come from what Chris is trying to do in the skating industry.
I'm not sure who first said, "I don't know much about' nothin', but I know what I like!" And I, for one, cannot wait for these to be released to the general public!
|
|
|
|
|
apparent
|
|
On 2/12/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i mentioned the "apparent traction" of that pair of wheels (the wheels on the trailing link trucks) this will lower the traction (maybe perceived traction is a better phrase) on the other pair of wheels. Maybe the flex will screw things up a bit,your probabely right about the rigidity thing,never tried a pvd personally. I know that just having 8mm axles makes my wheels grip much more confidently,and the straightness of my trucks does good things too.Wedges and trailing links seem like ways to adjust the traction and steering to fit what might be flubs in technique, like if someone keeps slipping out the back wheels,dewedging and or trailing links may help.
|
|
|
|
|
