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| Truck Reviews (15215 Posts)
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baseplate holes
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On 11/28/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.198.nnn.nnn)
"angled bolt pattern design"
I got some bennetts and noticed the mounting holes are 'conical'
pretty smart, nobody seems to mention it though...
this is what you meant, right chris?
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FasTracks from Larry / Buddy Tracker
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On 11/28/2007
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(66.91.nnn.nnn)
33 years later, I get a new toy to mess with :)
Pictures of the angled bolt pattern design from the "other" mfg .. w000 h000 . i probably have a pair waiting for me at the office. heading in soon. for now, have the truck chrome photons bounce off your face!
Damn, I have to pull out the wrenches and mess with my skateboard. Me lazy. BUT, this will be a noble effort, eh? :P
cYa
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Too small
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On 11/20/2007
JamieM
wrote in from
Canada
(70.49.nnn.nnn)
The kingpin sticks out above the axle a fair bit. I had no issues with 75mm wheels, just be careful with your 70mm wheels.
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smokeys
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On 11/20/2007
joseph
wrote in from
(121.223.nnn.nnn)
too small what is too small? i was thinking of useing zig zags at 70mm as the board is a top mount...(chicago foamie top mount) whats the problem with running small wheels? does the top of the hanger stick out too far above the kingpin?
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Smokies
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On 11/19/2007
JamieM
wrote in from
Canada
(70.49.nnn.nnn)
I have a set from the first production batch last year. They are very responsive, may take a bit to get used to if you have never used a bearing truck before. My favorite bushing setup was, Radikals(Blue or Green) thick 1" washers in the inner position with Khiro Inserts(yellow or red)in the outer. Check/lube the center bearing once in a while, and don't run too small a wheel and you will be fine.
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jim z
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On 11/19/2007
joseph
wrote in from
(121.223.nnn.nnn)
thanks for the reply but have gone with smokeys instead as they seem better suited to what i want. thanks for the reply. if you've got any experience with the smokeys (which if you sell trucks i imagine you would) a review would be cool.
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JimZ's
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On 11/18/2007
JamieM
wrote in from
Canada
(70.49.nnn.nnn)
If you want to have them perform their best, buy the bases with the hangers. I only sell them as a complete truck! Wedge them if you want them steeper. The JimZ are very good as a DH truck, will work fine for carving and ok for pumping. I would run the narrower axle to get the best compromise.
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jim z hangers
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On 11/18/2007
joseph
wrote in from
(121.223.nnn.nnn)
looking at maybe getting a set of jim z hangers (not the baseplates) and am wondering if they would make good carving trucks? i am going to set them up on a chicago longboards foamie top mount with a r2 baseplate up front and a downhill in the rear. i am getting them for downhill but like to carve and pump around on the board aswell. i am just looking for some feedback from other users of these trucks as it is a lot of cash if they dont suit both carving and downhill.
thanks in advance.
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More Stuff in Wax's general direction
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On 11/16/2007
Pauliwog
wrote in from
United States
(65.122.nnn.nnn)
Yes, Jackman's a great guy to have in the group, definately has pushed CSA to be faster and better as a whole.
As far as racing me in the "Masters", I gotta get back into training as soon as all the endless things are done with our first house we just bought this summer since all the "new guys" are getting the lead on me.
Schlater - P
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Indy Stage 1 to...oblivion
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On 11/14/2007 PSR
wrote in from
United States
(75.68.nnn.nnn)
Glenn, don't forget that along with a lower axle, Indy also went to much harder bushings and much softer pivot cups. The result was better landing cush and 'dead' response from down-pressure (and slight turning input), while retaining some degree of turn when leaned upon. Stage 1's or 2's could easily turn deeper, with far less resistance, than even stage 3's (the best all-arounder by far), let alone by stage 5, whereupon the pivots actually were softer than the bushings! Sticky-slow steering, and an exposed kingpin within a day of grinding! Yeah, no wonder GrindKing made headway in sales...
While I run RTX's as a front slalom truck (and ran Indy Stage 2's at Morro Bay one year), I really prefer the 'honest' linear turn-in of Tracker's to Indy's turn+twist geometry. My Lazers don't seem to really act like old Indy's so much as they act like quicker versions of older Bennett or Energy trucks. The British Proccer trucks I have are the only truck I've seen that likens to the Lazer in turn response, but they're still not as 'nimble', simply because the pivot cups are wider. Gus could be a contender, but, ugh, Ugly, Ugly pivot cups, original bushings (please Discard, Immediately!), and sub-5/16" axles, oh, and a weak link at the pivot pin itself... They need help, and an engineer (or even a lowly Draftsman/Machinist) who Skates to improve the breed. Fury seems to have conquered the pivot-cup-width+twist dilemma, but uses such awful bushings and thin axles (sub 5/16" from what I've seen), that it's a rebuild to 'create' a good truck. So, maybe re-working the new Bennett Vector is worthwhile for those who long for a 'quick-turn' front or 70's-style truck! Few others have actually done an affordable and competent job of bringing out a truely representative, quick, rugged, and slalom/pump--able truck from the 70's lineup.
Damn. where's ACS with a re-issue LITE when you want one?
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Stage 1
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On 11/14/2007 Glenn
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(84.9.nnn.nnn)
I was merely pointing out that the Indy geometry hasn't changed much if by 'geometry' we mean the turning axis, pivot angle and the distance between them. Is the depth of the bushing seat part of the 'geometry'?, probably not but it does effect the way the truck turns. The extra distance between the kingpin line and the axle does effect the geometry and the way the truck turns (but not the interchangability with stage 6) and is what an old Indy has in common with a Lazer.
This is an interesting point. Moving the axle further out from the kingpin (towards the ends of the board) has the effect of moving the roll axis of the board up slightly. I've always thought of this as being a good thing, a truck with a tall hanger (like a lazer or Bennett) that needs less risers should be less tippy than a board with low trucks and a stack of risers. The weird thing is that a lot of very popular trucks (anything Randal like, most custom slalom trucks specially rears) move the roll axis really low, almost down to the axle line. Sorry Kurt, this is all getting absurdly technical, I just find it fascinating how trucks with opposite designs can both be claimed to be stable, tippy or whatever...
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Stage 1
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On 11/10/2007 Curls
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(88.144.nnn.nnn)
I love artisan in most art, dance, or athletic discipline. As a debatable opinion I constantly come back to Simom Levene (Smokestack) as the best rider I have ever witnessed. (Gurus; I've met a few!)
As a friend of Smokestack I can say that he rides only vintage Stage 1 or
Lazer trucks. Just a thought...
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Indy/Tracker turning
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On 11/8/2007 Glenn
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.149.nnn.nnn)
Of course they turn differently. My take on it is that Indy (and most newschool trucks) turn better when cranked down tight than a tracker and I assume it's the steep pivot angle that makes this happen. the truck turns real sharp for the first few degrees of lean maybe? Trackers on the other hand feel, to me, much more stable and turn no less when run loose with enough risers to avoid wheelbite. Much more linear and more similar to something like a Randall, I put this down to the 'honest' pivot angle that actually lines up with the centre of the bushings.
If you lean an Indy right over, you can see the pivot pin really mangling the pivot cup out of shape as the geometry 'ignores' the pivot angle and just hinges along the line from the pivot centre through the centre of the bushings.
This is all kind of moot actually as the real reason I switched from Indys to Trackers (+ more riser and softer bushings) on even my ramp board is that the axles are just so much straighter.
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INDY
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On 11/8/2007
donald20
wrote in from
Germany
(84.62.nnn.nnn)
there have been various discussions about indy geometry changes and stuff on several forums already.without going into detail:they don't mix and match perfectly.but i have a hint for the deceived.when you mix and look from above and see the hanger placement towards the kingpin,you will definitely see some differences in the centering of the drillhole for the bushings.
give it a try
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location of the wheel bite
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On 11/7/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.255.nnn.nnn)
i am quite sure that if you set up indys and trackers to ride the same height, the wheels rub in a some what different place the tracker rub further towards the ends of the board its'not a huge difference,but the two trucks steer alot different,right? The "obvious" line you speak of may be pretty close to the "comprimise angle" i speak of,but trackers and indys turn very different, if they didn't, there's been a very silly arguement going on for the last 30 years or so.
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Indy stages
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On 11/7/2007
Pierre
wrote in from
Canada
(70.83.nnn.nnn)
Here's a pic of all Indy stages, i have baseplates and hangers from Stage II to stage 9 and they all mix and match perfectly.
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Truck Geometry
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On 11/7/2007 Glenn
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.149.nnn.nnn)
Well, a few years ago when I first swapped the hangers/baseplates over, I looked at them pretty closely, side by side, and the kingpins and pivots were at the same angle and obviously the same distance apart, otherwise they wouldn't be working now. In fact I have two of my non-riders under my desk here at work, one has '79 Indys, the other, '79 baseplates on newer hangers and they look, as far as turning geometry is concerned, identical. Sure, that longer bushing tube is a cool feature and I suspect why I didn't get on with Grind Kings which have almost no bushing seat to speak of.
As for the Pivot angle being the "main angle", are you sure about this?, surely a truck hinges along an axis which is a line from the centre of the pivot to the centre of the bushings. This is around 45 degrees on both Indys and trackers and if you compare a loose Indy pushed to near wheelbite with a loose tracker pushed to near wheelbite the Indy hasn't turned any more than the tracker.
I've often wondered what these erroniously steep pivots achieve. My best bet is that they provide more steering for cranked down, barely turning street skaters.
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ow
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On 11/7/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.125.nnn.nnn)
that was typed to quick,he he,try to break it up into actual sentances, don't try to read it out loud you might passout.
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truck geometry
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On 11/7/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.125.nnn.nnn)
i was thinking about it a little bit more,The main angle in a trucks geometry is the pivot angle the angle at which the hole in the baseplate,that the pivot bushing is fitted into, the angle varys from 45 degrees or so for old school trackers to something like 60 or 65 degrees for thunders or ventures or some other n.s, truck like that that is the primary truck geometry and has the greatest effect on how a truck steers it is a bit amazing that most of the rest of the changes in truck geometry probabely involve moving around the axle location around in a 6mm x6mm square. If you were to draw a truck profile and draw in the turning axis most conventional truck have the axle within about 6mm of the turning axis and the difference between the axle height is also about 6mm at most. That's the primary geometry,even the kingpin angle which does effect turning no one has a vertical kingpin and i don't know if there's one with an angle more than maybe 20 degree's maybe the range is 10 to 20 degrees
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those would be geometry changes
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On 11/6/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.125.nnn.nnn)
yeah, it's very possible for the baseplate angles to be exactly the same,though i doubt the pieces fit truely perfectly. Between the looseness of the pivot bushing and the total compressability of the "rubbers" the fit is pretty forgiving. The axle location in relation to the pivot axis is a major geometry change the closer to the pivot axis the more stabile,lower to the bushing ring makes for less leverage to the bushings. Since trucks of the indy style are essentially very "sloppy" both the pivot axis and the "bushing axis" get sort averaged together on sort of a variable scale the axle location to the "bushing axis" all effect the way the truck turns,subtly,alot of people may not notice.
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Indy stage geometry
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On 11/6/2007 Glenn
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.149.nnn.nnn)
Not sure how much Indy geometry has changed, I have used '79 Indy hangers with '02 baseplates (Is that stage 1 and stage 6?) and the other way round. They fit perfectly. The only non-cosmetic differences are that the old trucks have the axle maybe 1mm higher and 2-3mm further 'out' from the kingpin and the bushing seat is deeper (actually looks more like a tube). For what it's worth, I think the old Indys ride slightly better than the modern ones. Not sure if that's the further-out axle, the tube thing or just retro wishful thinking...
The same Indys also seem to be completely compatible with modern ventures.
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24ck Trucks
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On 11/5/2007
Justin
wrote in from
United States
(72.29.nnn.nnn)
anybody seen those 24k gold trucks?? i wuz wondering how those would holdup...i mean they should be pretty tough righ??
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ace
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On 11/4/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.198.nnn.nnn)
I was reading a thread on CD about these ACE truck.
people were saying that its 'stage 3' geometry.
how many times did indy changed geometry?
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nothing new
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On 11/4/2007 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.251.nnn.nnn)
i got a set of those "aces" trucks. not really a big deal,i guess you might say you've got to ride them but what kind of spectacular improvement could you possibly expect from a new truck that is so close to a traditional design,it's based on a stage 9,it does seem rather dense,heavy, it has fat areas, parts of the casting that are stronger than they need to be, if you look at a new tensor responce, it seems to avoid this,it's not spectacularly light ,but it's not heavy.Really light trucks seem to be an endangered species,the grind kings that were light are no longer being made,must seen alot of failures. Tensor responces will be coming out in magnesium, that should be interesting.
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ace
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On 11/4/2007 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.198.nnn.nnn)
http://www.skatedaily.net/reviews/archive/20070410-ace_skateboard_trucks.php
http://www.transworldsnowboarding.com/twbiz/features/article/0,21214,1616128,00.html
anyone ridden these?
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