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| Speedboarding (19049 Posts)
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Speedboarding |
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top speed bearings
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On 8/28/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
I am not a bearing brain by any means... but I do think that the key to attaining the fastest possible speeds would be with gigantic bearings. If theses could be fit into a large wheel, say 4" with a 3 1/2" hub, I think you might have the ticket.
I have seen some pretty heavy duty 2" - 3" bearings used in high speed machinery that I beleive would dissapate heat really well... my two cent... HR
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Location
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On 8/28/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
One of the more interesting aspects of a world speed record is the place to do it.I think that the slope of the hill determines the maximum speed,airodynamics just gets you closer to that maximum. Sixty two miles per hour,may already be within one percent of the maximum, on perhaps one of the steepest angled slopes that their willing to put asphalt on,i mean streets are made for cars to go up as well as down,(in the rain too)so how fast do you think is possible?Hey,i got an idea,ever check out that Hoover dam? yeah, who hasn't:)The most realistic possibility may be a plywood structure on a double diamond ski slope, maybe?
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Bearingt speed
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On 8/28/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Ok,lets give this a try.What Chris said may or may not be true,here's how it works.The ball has a diameter of X,and lets say the outer race has a diameter of 5X so while the outer race goes around lets say a thousand time the ball is spinning five thousand rpm's.Minimizer have smaller balls also,so the ratio may be close to that of a regular bearing but the weight of the balls is still less.You have to do some accurate measurements,or find out exact specs,to do the bearing speed calculations.
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mini miser bearings for speedboarding
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On 8/28/2000
drakkars
wrote in from
(213.56.nnn.nnn)
Hey Mr Chaput,
On your speedboarding page , you were saying that these bearings would "spin fewer RPM's as regular bearings at the same wheel speed" ....
Can you tell me more ??????
I really think that those bearing spin at the same RPM (Rotation Per Minute) as the wheels .... so do you use a kind of speed reducer to mount them on the wheels ??????
I'm also thinking about one more thing ..... How could they dissipate heat since they are smaller ???? (less dissipating surface) so you would need to build a king of heat dissipating device if you want to break speed records and not jam in the middle of your run ....
I guess these bearing were developped for new school skate boarding where the rotational accelleration of the wheel is important for trick and the global wheight of the setup is important to have more quickness from the board for any trick (smaller bearings = less metal in the wheel and less rotational inertia )
Sorry adam this post could as well go in the bearings department
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Trigger Finger
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On 8/27/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Gunnar,
You're too fast for me on the old "Submit" Button
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Truck Through the Deck
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On 8/27/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Tim N,
Pictures and tips on this process can be found at:
http://www.ChrisChaput.com/speedboarding
Click on one of the pictures toward the bottom marked NOSE or TAIL to get more details. Hugh R also has a page showing this with a nice mounting plate at:
http://www.hugh308.homestead.com/dropthru_randal_comp.html
For stability at speed use the 35 degree baseplates with either the Randal Downhill truck or Randal Comp II truck (with the "F" stamp showing).
Bombs away!
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Re: Mounting through the Board
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On 8/27/2000
Gunnar
wrote in from
(193.217.nnn.nnn)
Tim, go to: www.hugh308.homestead.com/skate_launch_page.html
There u will find some nice pictures of through the deck mounted R-II's.
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Mounting through the Board
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On 8/27/2000
Tim N.
wrote in from
(209.208.nnn.nnn)
I've read some posts about mounting your trucks through the board to lower your CG. Lowering CG always sounds great to me considering I have no aversion to cutouts. But could someone please post or email me details on how this mounting through the deck is done.
Thanks.
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Up Jimmy's Suit
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On 8/26/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Jimmy,
Try Gold Bond Cream or Cruex, it should be gone by race day ;)
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red bull
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On 8/25/2000 jimmy flindt
wrote in from
(24.1.nnn.nnn)
jimmy flindt got something up his suit for red bull sept 9
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Wheelbase/Hubs
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On 8/25/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Nick,
You're welcome. It's kind of a labor of love. A picture is worth a thousand words.
I use an axle to axle wheelbase of 31 3/4" because I had to borrow a Dregs race board from Waldo up in Mammoth and I noticed two things. Not only did I like the wheelbase, but many of the best riders were running the same or similar. It was definitely a case of "follow the leader".
Wheels without hubs are not allowed in racing. Some of the softer wheels without hubs can be "stretched" the point where they actually come off of the axles with the bearings still on! (Old Red Kryptos anyone?) Most riders are not racers and most racers are not rich and so the development of fast "disposable" wheel and hub and bearing sytems is virtually non-existent. Commercial wheels are almost all urethane so they last a long time. I think that a wheel using much less urethane on the rim of a large lightweight hub and that rotates on tiny bearings (like the mini miser) would be extremely fast but wouldn't last very long. The urethane portion would have to be thick enough to provide the necessary shock absorbsion, but thin enough to allow a stiff hub to reduce the sloppiness of a regular wheel. I have designed such a system that would allow for solid urethane "slicks" to slide onto reusable plastic or aluminum hubs. This would be more cost efficient than to just throw away whole wheels, but still very expensive to develop for such a limited market.
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details
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On 8/25/2000
david
wrote in from
(209.179.nnn.nnn)
good point danny, after thinking about it and laughing a little, it is ALL good
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Skateboarding down a hill.
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On 8/25/2000
Danny Connor
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Hey guys,
Whatever you want to call it, going down a hill on your skateboard is fun! If someone wants to look at every possible detail, let them. Someone wants to improve thier tuck to be .002 seconds faster, let them. It makes them happy, and you never know, they could develope something that could make the rest of us happy too. Point being, I used to look at this subject like the way many others do. I have since then rethought some things, and decided that...it's ALL good. Keep it real, and keep all the crazy ideas comin'!
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Chris Chaput website
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On 8/25/2000 Nick
wrote in from
(203.96.nnn.nnn)
Chris, a big thanks for a very imformative web site. At last I have seen some of the equipment being talked about here, as well as the correct stance etc. I,m from New Zealand and speedboarding is pretty much non-existant down here, so most of my info/exchange of ideas comes from the web. I find reading about all aspects of riding including the finer/minor details very interesting. If someones not interested in somthing I wish they,d just skip to the next post instead of wasting space complaining.
Anyway I was hoping you could answer a couple of questions for me. Firstly, what wheelbase do you use on your homemade "raceworthy" board and why? Also, I,ve heard wheels should have cores/hubs to isolate the bearings from the urethane, what benefit does this have at high speed?
Cheers, Nick.
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definitions
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On 8/24/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Chris/Others,
I for one am interested in any details of R&D that effect skateboarding. I love technology... even when I choose not to use it! (I still like to occasionally drill holes with out electricity... if you can believe that)
Here are my definitions of a few terms as they relate to skateboarding...
Downhill - Any street skating that encompasses going down a hill. It is a broad word that should not be used to describe a paticular discipline.
Stand up - Any downhill skating where the object is to acheive high speeds. The name implies that the skater is standing up on the deck. This word is fairly broad, although slightly more specific than "downhill". Racing is not necessarily implied. (this word should be phased out)
Speedboarding - A description of "high tech" stand up. Racing is one of the key differences between this and "stand up", as well as the use of any and all high-tech equipment. Its name implies the goal of very high speeds and the use of new technology and equipment. Cutting edge stuff. This is a word that should be used to describe the downhill stand up skateboard racers...
Anyway... that is my two cents and unless someone corrects my errors... that is how I define those terms... HR
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Reality Check
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On 8/24/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Here's the problem. There are several "flavors" of this discipline and no one can even agree on what to what call them. Would someone please tell me the difference between SPEEDBOARDING, STANDUP and DOWNHILL? There is no difference. These names collectively imply that a rider stands up on a board going downhill with speed and say nothing about the hill itself, which, as you all know, makes all the difference in the world.
There are at least five important features of a hill. Its length, width, steepness, surface and turns. The problem is that the hills that tend to keep the RIDERS happy are RARELY the hill that a RACE PROMOTER can get for an event and are the HARDEST TO COVER by the media. A short, somewhat steep asphalt road that is either straight or has long sweeping turns is about all we seem to get here in American racing. They are nicknamed "drag races" for the obvious reason. The EDI series and Gravity Games do the best that they can, but it falls short of the conditions under which most riders want to race. Before I start whining about the roads on which I race I have to remember that I have never put on a race on ANY road to date. Nothing would please me more than to have several LONG, WIDE, STEEP, SMOOTH, WINDING roads with a variety of course setups available to choose from. Reality Check. This is difficult and expensive and highly unlikely at present. There are no facilities in America that I am aware of and so closing off a road designed for cars will have to do for now. The RedBull races are always great fun but the Sept 9th race in Seattle is only .45 miles long and has only a few sweeping turns.
Here is my wish list of hills (all of which would be WIDE and SMOOTH) for the following events:
World Speed Record: Long, very steep, straight and at high altitude with a warm tailwind. Unlimited push.
Technical: Long, moderately steep, a combination of wide and sharp turns (some of which require sliding or braking) and some straights for tucking and passing. Limited push to make a pack in the first turn interesting.
Drag Racing: Medium length, Steep, Sweeping turns and straights with one or two turns that would require a rider to air-break from his tuck but not to slide. Unlimited push.
The Technical and Drag Races would have solo timed qualifying runs for determining the seeded brackets. Dual, Mass (4 man) and Super Mass (6 man) races if time allows. All day practice the day(s) before.
Although I'd wear a smaller profile helmet for the Technical course you could use the EXACT SAME EQUIPMENT for every event. This means that a rider who pays attention to the details in the races that demand it, would also benefit by them in the races where more technical riding skill was necessary.
I find it absolutely amazing how resistive some skaters are to detail oriented technology. I was skating back when a urethane wheel was a breakthrough, flex was novelty and precision bearings were an unnecessary "detail". Since it is practically impossible to teach someone how to ride a speedboard using a keyboard, most of what we talk about here is equipment. Since I am fortunate enough to have access to a lot of speedboarding resources and will be racing in most all of the upcoming races, I'll be continuing to post my R&D to those who are interested. Every other sport on the planet, car and motorcycle racing, skiing, cycling, surfing, sailing, speedskating, etc., have teams of engineers who are paying great attention to detail because you can’t win today without it. I for one, really don’t want to go another 25 years without learning anything.
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Oh shucks?!
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On 8/24/2000
Craig
wrote in from
(196.34.nnn.nnn)
Oh...
well there you have it, I just went to see cemboards.com (go check it out!!!!) and there, under "team" is a blurry picture of me, doing exactly what I said i didn't do.
I have changed my style a bit since...i have gotten all round faster, better and more stable. In that pick I was riding a 38" flexdex. New i ride a cem; Bullet-lower centre of gravity and stuff. bye
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Stance
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On 8/24/2000
Craig
wrote in from
(196.34.nnn.nnn)
Hello, from South Africa.
I ride really low, my back leg almost kneeling on the board, my feet almost in a straight line. I get my head and back down as low as i can, and as parallel to my deck as possible, in this position. (anyone seen Roli Hafner ride? i'm riding his board design...Cem skates...and have been heavily influenced by his style). I like this position for cornering and I think it's probably fastest, although i'm still a bit sloppy.
Most Americans (as opposed to europeans ive seen: manu roli and cem) i've seen seem to ride really high, their legs almost straight, but their back parallel to the deck. (similar to skiing, except their feet aren't parallel)
At the Santa Rosa DH on tele. I saw some guys riding similar to the 'high standup' style, except much much lower, and their front and back feet were touching they were so close (for me, i would be too unstable and fall like this). This style, i believe is probably the fastest.
There was this other dude riding with his feet parallel to each other (as if skiing) on the front of the board, and he looked like a monkey! No seriously, i don't know how the f#*k he does that...at that speed...through the corners?????
That was ridiculous, but the comp was won by a young gent called Bicycle something or other....anyone heard of him?
Anyway...he was riding in that high up position which i, personally think looks gawky. I have seen this position demonstrated live for me by Dallas Oberholzer who was also very fast (a very close second place).
Basically I'm very confused and would like to hear some other opinions. Let's get really controversial, i want black eyes, bruises, swear words, the lot.
Anyway, I think people who worry about hi tech too much are stinky poo poos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I buy my shoes at second hand stores, where they are cheap, and last a touch longer than tennis shoes. Although i think the big laces on my Caterpillar tackies slow me down, no worries, i'm merely trying to improve my technique for now...
Craig
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Speedboarding vs. Downhill
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On 8/24/2000
GBJ
wrote in from
(205.177.nnn.nnn)
I think everyone here will probably agree that there is now a definable difference between Downhill as discussed by Herbn, and Speedboarding as discussed by Chris. These two disciplines are very similar to the two "speediest" disciplines in alpine skiing, Downhill and Speedskiing. Imho, the more the disciplinary divisions in skateboard racing emulate those in skiing, the more understandable we will be to the general public and the less time we will have to spend "reinventing the wheel".
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Soapbox
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On 8/24/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Interesting, i have a different vision of Downhill Speedboarding, i don't think those little details should be all that important,if they are sweat the details, but i think courses should be a challenging to finnish without sliding out,short very steep accelleration sections,tight, tight corners,maybe a push finnish,getting a picture?skill and athletics.I've seen X games,and they seem like they're going in that direction but not really,i'd like to see a tape of that Austrailian DH that was being called frightening and faster than we've ever gone in races by some of the participants.If a race is just a straight line,just write your name on a precisely balenced sack of sand put it on your precisely made board ,because it will have a much lower center of gravity and be much more airodynamic.
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Pics of shoes and bearings
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On 8/23/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Shoes:
I use off the shelf $12.99 white Payless brand slip-on tennis shoes that are about one size too small. Why? The soles are flat and have good traction. They are cheap, disposable (only the brake foot wears out), readily available and therefore easy to replace without having to re-learn a shoe's feel. They go on easily, never fall off and have no laces to mess with. Oh yeah, and because of their low profile, they are aerodynamic ;-)
Bearings:
I had been running Hawk bearings with the seals removed until recently. They've worked well. Now I am now running the Ninja Mini Misers. Because of the smaller diameter of this bearing, every time the wheel goes around the bearings inside don't have to travel as far and therefore will work less hard and stay cooler. I'm trying to convince Randal to use this size in his floating axle trucks (without the adapter) so that the hanger's bearing housings would be smaller and the whole truck would be lighter. Large wheels could benefit also by having more hub and less urethane and these tiny bearings. I've put more pictures out on http://www.ChrisChaput.com/speedboarding of these bearings and my high tech Payless shoes.
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bearings?
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On 8/23/2000
RobMc3
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
Chris I did some runs with you at Mammoth this summer and was stoked on how stoked everybody was about how stoked you wwere to come out of hiding. What do you do for bearings? I was standing by the truck when you ran off at what maybe 30? scary and in keds what the hell were you sportn for shoes? Have fun and go do it.
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Chris Chaput
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On 8/23/2000
Dan Gesmer / Seismic
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Oops, that's obviously "Chaput" not "Cahput". Sorry Chris. Just call me Don.
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Chris Cahput
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On 8/23/2000
Dan Gesmer / Seismic
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Congrats to Chris for being possibly the most analytical speedboarder in history. His speedboarding page (http://www.ChrisChaput.com/speedboarding) is remarkably clear and precise, and what a generous guy to share all of this with the world. "Got hills?" indeed...
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A game of inches
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On 8/23/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
New pictures of my equipment have been added to:
http://www.ChrisChaput.com/speedboarding
I think these pictures really help to demonstrate how a little aerodynamics can put the "speed" into speedboarding. For those who don't think an aero helmet makes that much difference, take a look and you decide. I have to do an entire "Houdini" routine to get in and out of this outfit without help. This is not casual skatewear for the heat of summer. I lost 3 pounds just getting dressed and jumping in front of the camera with its timer ;-)
At the risk of beating a dead horse and sounding like a math geek, .002 mph, a number that I believe was chosen to sound intentionally insignificant, turns out to be equal to 2.112 inches in a one minute race. If you raced for one mile at and average speed of 60 mph, it would take one minute. Can you imagine what the little voice in the back of your head would be saying if you lost a big race by 2 inches? "If only I had done this or used that or blah, blah, blah..." I'm not saying everyone should care about these details and I know that relatively few people will probably ever get the chance to race, but for those on the fringe who want to get involved and who want to hear from someone who has been down this road a couple of times, I am happy to help and share what I am learning. The internet is an awesome way to get fellow skaters connected to the wealth of resources found on this planet. It's time to take advantage of all that gray matter upstairs.
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