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| Buttboarding (778 Posts)
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Buttboarding Info |
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On 11/17/2001 Duane
wrote in from
(63.21.nnn.nnn)
Loud crash from the next room, my five year old knocked over all my board, domino-style.
Dad: "I told you not to skateboard in the house! " Son: "But dad, I wasn't skateboarding, I was buttboarding! "
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On 11/13/2001
Darren Lott
wrote in from
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
There is an update and South African event coverage at ButtBoarding.com.
Is that really Flash Gordon?
-Darren
ButtBoarding.com
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On 11/13/2001
Tommy
wrote in from
(195.102.nnn.nnn)
Hello Mojo,
thats an excerpt from the IGSA Rulebook...
addtitionally see http://www.gravity-sports.com/rules/rules.htm
...have fun riding ! cheers Tommy
CLASSIC BOARD SPECIFICATIONS (Buttboard)
The BASIC PREMISE is that any rider should be able to put together a competitive board from skateboard shop supplies for about $200 complete. A rider may spend more on a board if they wish, however, advancements which require a higher investment to be competitive, will be banned.
DECK: Must be made of wood. The deck may have molded features such as a kicktail, but must be one piece. No dropped boards. It may be any shape within the size limits. Nothing may be added to the deck except for the following:
Foam padding to the top.
Non aerodynamic stiffeners to the bottom.
Skateboard-type grip rails underneath.
WEIGHT: The complete board must not exceed five kilograms (5Kg / 11lbs).
LENGTH: One hundred twenty-five centimeters (125cm / 48") maximum.
WIDTH: Three hundred five millimeters (305mm / 12") maximum.
TRUCKS: The trucks must be lean steer activated. They must be commercially available* skateboard trucks. Trucks may have a rolling axle.(Z-Rollers, Randals, THX) They must not exceed three hundred five millimeters (305mm / 12") wide, as measured from the outside edge of the axles. The board must use exactly two (2) trucks.
TRUCK MOUNTING: Trucks must be mounted to the bottom of the deck. Base plates that drop through the deck or routered out deck bottoms are not legal.
BEARINGS: Standard steel 608 skateboard bearings only. No ceramic, Mini-mizers, 9 balls or other high performance or exotic bearing types.
WHEELS: 70mm skateboard wheels only. They must be commercially available*. The board must use exactly four (4) wheels.
*Commercially available means the product must have been distributed to at least 24 people outside the company.
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On 11/12/2001
MoJo
wrote in from
(4.23.nnn.nnn)
What are the rules regarding length width ground clearence
wheel diameter .any info would be awsome.thanks Dan Dan the Longboard Man.
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On 11/11/2001
david
wrote in from
(209.179.nnn.nnn)
why is it that a 50 degree truck(like the randal 2) is always the choice for buttboarding. how come nobody uses the randal downhill trucks with a 35 degree baseplate. is it because they simply don't turn enough?
what about combining the downhill baseplate and the r-2 hanger(my favorite stand up speed truck)
is there a method to this maddness?
peace
david
ps. HC, can you hook me up with a buttboard, i wrote you a email but you never responded
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On 11/7/2001
david
wrote in from
(216.244.nnn.nnn)
i got one......assboarding.....but seriously, hc check your mailbox, i wanna get a buttboard as soon as possible!!
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On 11/7/2001
hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
ok, i got a new name for "buttboard"
ready? LUGEBOARD!
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On 11/6/2001 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
It's official,then--I'm an Outlaw in both luging and on buttboard,all on the same ride! OY! Maybe the ol' Crutchboard will work with four wheels,I'll have to try it this week.But,then again,it's made of five pieces of wood,not one. Oy,Again. It's moments like this that remind me of being in Little League,sittin' on the bench,again. oy.
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On 11/6/2001
Darren Lott
wrote in from
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
See the Event Coverage on www.Buttboarding.com
(ps you failed the "post first challange")
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On 11/5/2001 Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
How come nobody seems to use Power Paw wheels for buttboarding? I've heard mention of Classic Ks and Easyriders, but nobody seems to ride Power Paws. Why is this? All the Power Paw wheels I've tried (Aluminators and Cyclotrons) have been exceptionally well built, fast, and grippy.
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On 11/2/2001
Darren Lott
wrote in from
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
Double trucks were already standard when I was taught in the late 70s. They are a technical solution to what might otherwise be an exercise in perfecting your style.
Skateboard trucks are inherently unstable. One response it to tighten the trucks very tightly and put as much weight as possible over the front truck. This help reduce or eliminate steering from the rear and makes the board easier to control.
The down side is that almost all of the traction must come from the front 2 wheels. So the early luge solution is to add another 2 wheels up front, thus restoring the grip of 4 wheels.
Things start getting very complicated from there, and then add another truck in back and it's super critical to get the set up correct. But talk about superior traction!
Fortunately, Buttboard is limited to the Essentials: Two trucks, four wheels, flat deck. And when you master those the rest becomes gravy.
Skateboards are meant to steer with all four wheels. Not lock out the back and steer around turns like a car, or pick up one wheel in the rear to get around a turn.
When you properly weight a Buttboard in the hard turns, you will get even wear (or fairly even) on all four wheels.
First you need as stable a set up as possible, so you are not SIMULATING stability by locking out steering, and then forcing a slide around the turn. Proper truck type, positioning, and adjustment are requisite.
Then you need to make sure you are turning with front and back wheels. Maybe this means sitting further back on the board. Maybe it means moving the front trucks forward. If you sit up around the turn, maybe it means putting one hand back to control the weight (watch Gerhard sometime). Personnally, I keep my back flat and use it to distribute the weight. Rogers rides more like Gerhard does and Ozman rides more like I do.
A skateboard is mechanically very simple. But dynamically it's incredibly complex. The Blessing of buttboard over the luge, it that you do not waste time looking for "the next technical advantage." Concentrate on riding.
When you master your skills on the simple equipment, then you are ready to try your hand at luge. You cannot see how much further the technology will take you, until you know what your body can do.
Darren
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On 10/31/2001 PSR
wrote in from
(209.198.nnn.nnn)
I figured out the front truck setup decades ago,and it is using double front trucks.My 'crutchboard' will likely remain illegal for as long as I'm able to ride,but it frippin' works! Meanwhile,I'd add that experimenting with placement of the front truck(more forward)would be the only legal fix on current buttboards.
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On 10/31/2001
Tommy
wrote in from
(195.102.nnn.nnn)
hi, just to make it clear... it is true, the technique (riding, style, cornering as well as the board setup) is far from simple ! I agree totally. just think the rules and the zone in which we can play with different setups, equipment etc. should be kept as simple as possible. It's a skateboard and I don't mind the shape, setup or anything as long as it stays a skateboard... Only my opinion. cheers and have fun riding out there ! Tommy
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On 10/30/2001
Brian K
wrote in from
(24.15.nnn.nnn)
Mario,
You can vary the amount of weight on the front rear wheels by the amount you sit up. The more prone you are, the closer to the 60/40 weight bias you will be. As you sit up, that bias changes.
If you can get 2 bathroom scales and a helper, place a scale under each truck and take measurements in each position. This will give you some idea as to what is happening as you change body positions.
Course, you could just ride alot and play around... It's only through repetition and careful analysis that you will start to find the right riding position for the right corner. Remember, some corners will require more breaking and a more upright position, some less and a more prone position.
I was doing alot of scrubbing (coning the outside front wheel) for a while. After asking others to help identify why, I realized I was sitting up too much and overloading the front truck. After practicing, I was able too increase corner speed and decrease wheel wear.
The other key to fast cornering is smooth, controlled weight shifting. You can try and muscle it around, but a B-board is much funner and faster when ridden smoothly. Don't just practice going faster, practice being more precise.... Increased speed will be a byproduct of that.
Have Fun!
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On 10/30/2001 Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
Yeah, if it was a luge I'd just put on another set of wheels like a lot of other people do. But since I want to race a race-legal setup, I can't go that route. I guess this gets back to the simplicity of the buttboard thing; while it is simpler than a luge, it is far from simple.
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On 10/30/2001 hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
maybe double truck the front for more traction.
(would make it illegal though)
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On 10/30/2001 Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
Brian K,
For the most part, I'm doing exactly what you and other's have suggested. My board is about the same dimensions as a Lott Classic, and I'm running Randal trucks with all the right modifications.
2) Your butt should be 2" behind the front truck.
This is the part I'm struggling with. I'm wearing out the front wheels quite a bit, and that would make them wear even more. I'm probably more like 8-12" behind the front truck. I'm already sliding my front wheels all the way through some turns, so I reason that to go any faster I have to shift the traction to the rear. Moving rearwards will make the board less stable, but is the most direct solution to this. There are some other ideas I've got, but it will require some beer and some experimentation, not necessarily in that order.
Additional thoughts on this are welcome.
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On 10/29/2001
hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
stephan, nice to see you post here. I remember watching you luging on the earlier xgames. I am a buttboard novice and longboarder, but being interested in luge for a long time. I believe once people see more exposure of buttboard on tv, this will help promote it. I think many people misunderstood buttboards cuz they never see it in action.
And also internet sites like ncdsa (thx to adam for this forum) and buttboarding.com will help spread the word.
someday, I'll make it to austria!
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On 10/29/2001
Brian K
wrote in from
(24.15.nnn.nnn)
Mario,
Here's some answers to your questions.
1) Is it faster to slide through a turn or to stick all the way through it?
Yes. It depends on the corner, steepness and radius will dictate the proper technique. Learn to slide and "carve".
2) What is the best way to balance front/rear traction (I tend to push the front, or "understeer")
Your butt should be about 2 inches behind the front truck. The rear truck should be under your head. See my earlier post on how to build a board and you will end up with something that will be stable and controllable.
3) What is the optimal amount of wheelbase?
See #2 above.
4) What is the optimal truck angle? And should the front and rear truck turn at the same angle?
That depends on the behavious you are trying to entice out of the board. Using 2 angled risers, with the the skinny ends forward will give you the most forgiving setup. As your skills improve, you may want to remove the risers and go with a flat setup. The defacto truck for the "Lott Classic" style board is the Randal RII. It's a 50 degree baseplate. Buy the RIIB, as Randal sets it up with stiffer bushings and a beefed up kingpin.
5) How much flex should the deck have?
Depends on what ride characteristics you like. A stiffer deck will be "crisper" while a flexy deck will soak up some vibration. 5/8" marine plywood will likely give you a suitable ride.
6) What's the best wheel for a given course?
Any 70mm wheel that works for you. On any given race day, you will find as many wheel combinations as you will riders. Experiment with as many different 70mm wheels as you can get. The Kryptonics Classic K seems to be the most readily available to most skate shops, but there are other choices. Try to avoid "Roller Skate" wheels like the Krypto Route series. They will be slow and they take an odd sized spacer.
7) Etc...
Report back your answers to this one...
Have Fun!
Brian
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On 10/29/2001 3rd Corner Camera
wrote in from
(130.191.nnn.nnn)
I just posted the pictures I took at the IGSA US Nationals, in Barrett.
Check them out at: http://www.geocities.com/xtremekludy/
Go to "Photos" – then click on the link to IGSA US Nationals Images
I will keep them there for a couple weeks - feel free to download them.
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On 10/29/2001
Mario
wrote in from
(148.87.nnn.nnn)
You may think buttboarding is simple, and I guess compared to luge it is. But I'm finding there are all sorts of technical details that still need to be mulled over. I suppose this makes me helplessly "American", but so be it:
1) Is it faster to slide through a turn or to stick all the way through it?
2) What is the best way to balance front/rear traction (I tend to push the front, or "understeer")
3) What is the optimal amount of wheelbase?
4) What is the optimal truck angle? And should the front and rear truck turn at the same angle?
5) How much flex should the deck have?
6) What's the best wheel for a given course?
7) Etc...
So even if buttboarding is relatively simple, there are enough variables that a technically-oriented person can still think themselves into a pretzel.
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On 10/28/2001
Tommy
wrote in from
(195.102.nnn.nnn)
true. I think the KEY is to keep it SIMPLE. the existing rules for buttboarding are alright. we don't need/want the technical battle e.g. ceramics etc. Stick to the simple rules and we all will be able to keep havin fun and competing rider vs. rider ! cheers Tommy
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On 10/28/2001
Stefan Wagner
wrote in from
(217.88.nnn.nnn)
Hey you guys out there!!!
It's great to see and read you may of you (especially Americans) get into serious Buttboarding.
To me this is some kind of emotional pay-back and it makes me proud and happy. I have to thank Darren Lott, whom I was able to convince to trust me and my advices about setting up a board and fly over to Hot Heels. The promotion he did for our idea of doing laydown-skateboarding is incredible. I never will forget that.
After years trying to make American lugers aware of a differnet way to do it and just receiving smart grins, today it is e.g. this forum that represents how much all of you are supporting the idea.
I remember hard discussions with Darren and Chris about the rules and what to be buttboarding in the future. By building up this forum Chris demonstrates that he understands pretty good. Thank you!!!
I understand that mankind wants to progress. Probabely Americans are more technical-oriented. If you want to do me a favor: please keep it as simple as it is. From my experience it does not matter if you have special equipment (ok, rotten bearings are NOT good), if you are skilled yourself (technically) and are in shape the race will be decided in your head only.
With Luge it is different. If you see my career at the X-Games, only races with technical parts led me on the podium. Reason: I never used ceramic bearings nor a high-tech luge. If you want to play with equipment go luging. If you want to just play - ride with your buddies and take your buttboard.
To me one of the spirits of buttboarding is to accept that in a certain run or heat or race someone else was better. If I felt like I should have won, it was in this moment me and not my equipment that kept me from winning. Accepting this made me also a better man in many other terms.
Setting up Hot Heels or attending any other event, to me the most fascinating point was to meet peaople with the same spirit. As you all know, it is hard to find people like these in these days. The race-instinct arose after the first heats; then other things counted.
I hope to see as many of you in Austria at Hot Heels. I know that travelling is expensive. But as long as there is someone who makes Hot Heels happen you should go there. It is like a "once in a lifetime" thing.
If you have any questions about buttboarding or Hot Heels post them. I also have a plan as Corel-CDR-file of my buttboard. Perhaps someone wants to know.
As far as my back is concerned. I think I will not be able to ride again. Even if I wished to share my 'secrets' with a potentional new rider. But I you are at Hot Heels next year and have quations about the course, feel free to address me.
I will check this forum from time to time.
Stay all well.
Chis and Darren: I thank you very much. I hope, but think, that everybody appreciates your efforts.
Stefan
PS: Please forgive me any writing mistakes, as I am not a native American (but German). Talking is fairly easier than writing.
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