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| Region: Europe (5207 Posts)
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TLP
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On 1/12/2002
CER
wrote in from
(66.185.nnn.nnn)
Thanks Don, Got the answers I needed.
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Hello, anyone home?
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On 1/12/2002 adam trahan
wrote in from
(204.152.nnn.nnn)
Hello Don,
If you answer my question, "Give me one single reason to remain quiet about slalom skateboardings best INTERNATIONAL organization to date." I will be happy to answer your question after you answer mine but let's see if there is interest as you have said Don.
I do not have anything new to write in regards to this matter. I've said my peace and I want to hear if the people in Europe who also remember the ISSA have anything to say. This is my intent to follow what you said about "if there is interest over there..." Dead is a final and represents a memory. I want to help give this organization life if there is a chance. I'm certainly not pronouncing this fine memory dead at any point in time when I know that it is a viable form of organizing international slalom skateboarding.
I do not disrespect your series of races, this isn't even an issue. I refuse to make a blanket statement of that sort. I will watch, learn and get stoked about the performance level moving forward with the TLP series. I dig racing, you guys are holding races. Heck, I'm flying to Boston for my first race, I'm not missing it this time.
When Jani Soderhall tells me that the ISSA is dead, I will then capitulate.
Best Regards,
adam trahan
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Claude
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On 1/12/2002
Don O'Shei
wrote in from
(64.168.nnn.nnn)
Claude,
I apologize for any confusion. Your email came to me at the TLP address but was addressed to Jack. I assumed that you had sent it to him directly and copied TLP so I didn't reply. Your answer is on the way.
Don O'Shei
FCR/TLP
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ISSA/TLP
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On 1/12/2002
Claude
wrote in from
(66.185.nnn.nnn)
I don't Don but at this rate I may actually be able to get a response to an e-mail quicker from the ISSA then TLP ?
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ISSA
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On 1/12/2002
Don O'Shei
wrote in from
(64.168.nnn.nnn)
Adam,
I understand that you and Gilmour and possibly some others are very attached to the "memory" of your ISSA experiences. Thats fine. But where i part company with you is the idea that those of us who don't share this nostalgic attachement are disrespectful for pointing out that in the last 2 years and possibly for much longer the ISSA has been "dormant" and that we feel no particular obligation to subject what we are currently doing to a revived ISSA. There is nothing disrespectful about it. The current US Slalom revival has been driven by many people most of whom have no sentiment al attachment to the ISSA.
Don O'Shei
FCR/TLP
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Associations
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On 1/12/2002
Don O'Shei
wrote in from
(64.168.nnn.nnn)
Adam
Do you also feel this strongly about the ISA, the PSA, the USSA, the UASA and any number of other dead organizations or is there some reason that you are particularly attached to the ISSA?
Don O'Shei
FCR/TPL
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pauls uk longboard site- thanx psycoll0yd
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On 1/12/2002
paul
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
Thanks man yeah I had trouble as my counter reset so all 6 hits wer back to ) again never mind, I just wanted a local site to try & get some interest in my local area. I did have one friend who was half interested in longboarding but after a nasty crash which left him in hospital for 6 days he was kinda reticent to get into it again. its always a good idea to wear pads unless you really are just having a slow commute to the shops on the flat. I really like the NCDSA site as it has so much good info, you can usually find out any obscure info with a search stuff like bearing spacer sizes or the merits of exskates versus randalls or seismics, its great. I did get a bit disillusioned last year as I never met any other longboarders in Torquay who seemed into it in a big way. I think I have spoke to 2 people, neither of them was aware of sites like NCDSA, lush, and mags like ILB but this tear Im hopin 2002 will be the kickoff year . catch u later.........Paul
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Indoor fun for all
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On 1/12/2002
Longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(213.48.nnn.nnn)
Hey Chris cool, today i spent skating away from security guards at Birmingham international station, wow its smooth (and deserted) i normally skate wolverhampton civic car park but it can get a bit sketchy wit da oily and der gritty.
Love to all
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ISSA
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On 1/12/2002
adam trahan
wrote in from
(208.203.nnn.nnn)
The ISSA is not dead as long as I am alive. I will not go away or change my opinion on this matter. I will not take part in causing a rift or grudge in regards to the USA and foreign slalom enthusiasts who may have been a part of the ISSA.
The fact that I am an American makes not one bit of difference in this matter. I like slalom skateboarding and this is where I base my stance.
I am continually amazed that some slalom skateboarding enthusiasts at the NCDSA proclaim this historical international organization dead. This perspective is offensive to my history, disrespectful of our ISSA slalom skateboarding enthuisiasts abroad and causes me every time to defend this great organization in a public/global forum. Please stop offending me.
I remember what they did for slalom skateboarding. The ISSA is a part of my history and the reason why I had 2 Turner Blackbirds, a Cutaway, a Fullnose, Magnesium FullTracks, Henry Hester Road Riders, a full set of Hyper Strada's in each durometer, a Santa Cruz "Graphite Loaded" 40 good cones and a set of Seismic 110's that Dan Gessmer gave to me, all this in 1994-95. I had some Summer Ski's before this, but these guys really helped me get motivated!
For me, the ISSA is a living part of my history that I am proud to proclaim as a positve organization in the progression of our sport. So much came from this era.
I owe my allegiance to the ISSA, all of this before the NCDSA was ever conceived. My first handshake goes to Jani Soderhall & John Gilmour. These two helped keep the light on for me while nearly everyone in America was sleeping. They got a lot done by writing letters to me, helping me build my quiver, helping me set my courses, sending me Slalom magazines, helping me try to spread the cheer and I honor them proudly. This is easy for me to defend.
*grin*
The ISSA is a part of slalom history wether it is dormant or otherwise. Calling this international organization dead is dis-respectful given my perspective. Give me one single reason to remain quiet about slalom skateboardings best INTERNATIONAL organization to date.
I assure you that many many global slalom enthusiasts will eventually find their way to this site. What do you think they will find offensive? My words?
To my global friends, let this be known that I honor your past, my past, and I look forward to meeting any of you, legends or otherwise as much as I look forward to the Boston July 4th event.
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Paul's UK Longboard Page
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On 1/12/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
Nice start to the site Paul. It's not easy getting it all together (believe me, I know) but you're getting there.
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added review of sector 9 video " rollin"
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On 1/12/2002
paul
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
http://www.langley-hq.fsnet.co.uk/uklongboard/uklongboard.htm
Hi I added today a review of the sector 9 video "rollin"
I see the slalom/competition debate is stil rollin along nicely. Id be glad of seeing anyone out on a board at the moment where I live..................paul
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indoor car parks
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On 1/12/2002
chris
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
longboardbhudda - as for indoor car parks, you must try the one at geneva airport! it's got a massive spiral rampway at each end, one for "down" and one for "up" so (if you get the right one) you are not going to meet any cars all the way down. It's quite tight, and the surface is a bit bumpy, so you've really got to keep your wits about you and stay in control. hangin in there on the edge. sweet.
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Events
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On 1/11/2002
Scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
Cliff,
I hope you don`t think I am one to believe there is a riff between the west coast and the other slalom skaters. What concerns were pointed out are legitimate as far as qualifying is concerned. Why such a heated debate? Just take a hard look at how the qualifying is set for the World Comps. There will be 2 classes to qualify or race in, Pro or Open. Each race will have 48 competitors. With each, the Open and the Pro, 32 slots will be given to the top competitors of the Pro series and 32 to the Open. Of the 96 possible contestants, 64 will come from the TLP series. That leaves 32 slots open, 16 for the Pro and 16 for the Open. Of the 16 open Pro spots, 10 will be awarded by the organizers of the TLP at thier discretion. Could be someone from the same area or elsewhere. Of ALL the open spots, those of the same local still have a chance of qualifying.
To ignore the lopsidedness of this arrangement is not ignorance. It is either a tactical ploy to garner a victory from someone in that geographical area or maybe something more sinister, Money $$$$$$. Yes, the promoters are putting alot at stake hear but with such large stakes here may come financial rewards from sponsors. Anyone with a close connection to street or vert contests can attest to that. And there is nothing wrong with the promoters making a buck on this. I heard Henry lost 5K on The La Costa and that`s not right considering not only what out of pocket he put out for it but also his time and efforts too. Time is money and he has a family to support just like most of us
I hate to seem cynical but I`m not the only one. Since I became openly verbal on the Europe forum on NCDSA, I have gotten bombarded with emails stating the same concerns.
As far as JG and others touting the ISSA and euros events, it is absurd, In all aspects, the ISSA IS dead. But on the same hand, the TLP is basically saying THEY are the international org of the year and they set the rules. Without any input from outside of thier organization. It is easy to see how the skaters can questions the TLP`s right to hold a World Comp.
I personally feel they have every right to hold it since it was thier doing that brought it back to life.
I just question how they manage it though. But on the same hand I applaud them for thier efforts.
It may not be perfect but it`s better than nothing. I would like them to see what is and what could be. If they stick to thier guns, they will always be questioned.
I also respect that it takes a lot of time and money to hold this series. And there should be rewards from it to those that put into it. Financial rewards is OK too.
There is also the flip side, if you don`t draw interest to the events, there will be no sponsors, so I can see how it is in thier (TLP`s) best interest to have as many participate in ALL events so the need to favor those that do.
*
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With all this said, I now understand the difficult balance the TLP must make. I just think that maybe they should soften thier approach and handle this more like a service oriented buisness....customers come first. Without no customers, there is no buisness.
I think I`ve said enough and will gracefully bow out for now on the NCDSA boards (only to the TLP series, You can`t make me go away that easy. Besides, I`m a worthy debate opponent)
Skate Safe,
Brady Mitchell
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A way of seedig racers fairly for duals
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On 1/11/2002
John Gilmour
wrote in from
(151.203.nnn.nnn)
Clingfilm, I just want to see the same fair chance given to all racers. I think on site qualifiers will be the fairest way of seeding. When I competed in Europe I felt that there weren't unfair rules that would have prevented me from getting a result that ranked me appropriately (there was only one bracketing or timing error I found in all of the contests)I just would like to ensure the fairness is returned.
I'm playing around with a new seeding system. For a race. If the phrase "you are only as good as your last race" is true, then indeed every racer should have to qualify for every race.
The key is to allow for fair qualification without it taking a long time. Also to allow head to head racing in a bracket that includes people somewhat close to your ability level.
My concern is to make sure the ordering of the top 10 is as accurate as can be with little chance for upsets. Putting 2 highly skilled racers against each other in a lower bracket ensures the likelyhood of an upset.
I also want to keep the number of runs it takes to become World Champion reasonable. Our sport is a anerobic sprinting sport. If you were to run the 100 meter dash you would find that after a while your times would increase as you fatigue. If Paul Dunn did 25 top speed runs and went against a fresh Mike Maysey- Mike would likely beat him, though PD regularly beats Maysey.
If we needed 40 runs to become world champion then the champ would be choosen based more on endurance than speed.
If we were interested in endurance our courses would be 200 cones long.
So how can someone do these things.
1. Qualify
2. Race people near his ability level (but not so near as to cause an upset) in a head to head format. (This brings out the most speed- and no one is really interested in seeing Gary Cross blow away the 128th seed)
3. Ensure that the racers are ordered correctly in places 1-10
4. Keep the total number of runs per racer down for the top 48 guys.
Make it fair so that people who can not afford to race all the races are not punished in qualifying. Without Europe and the East Coast and Central USA slalom reverts to being nothing more than a regional California sport- manufacturers will not support such a small market. Slalom gear will become scarce.
I'm pretty close to an effective system. I'll test it in the July 4th race. There will be a single track race as well as a dual race which will have courses that will be somewhat comparable- we can see if the results bear out the truth. I'll post it up as soon as I am done.
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new web page
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On 1/11/2002
paul
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
Hi I have a new longboard web page at:
http://www.langley-hq.fsnet.co.uk/uklongboard/uklongboard.htm
there,s not much on at the moment but there is my review of the sector 9 big stick video. Its more of a local site really, im hopin local longboarders may see it & get in touch so that we can get a longboard scene going in Torbay.
im not bothered if its slalom, racing,bombing hills or just carving and cruising just be nice to get something underway specially this being a seaside town and having lots of great places to ride. PEACE...........Paul
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Events
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On 1/11/2002
Scabs
wrote in from
(65.80.nnn.nnn)
Cliff,
Lemme explain what I said in previous posts and that may clarify things..
First of all, It was I who referred to snips rather that snipes and I was referring to those that posted thier concerns about the qualifying for World Comp or the relationship of the TLP series to it. I may have confused some with Adam T`s post in where he was taking snippets from other`s posts. My bad not his.
Even so, I don`t recall any posts of being personal attacks but just questioning the concerns I mentioned above.
I can only speak for myself and I posted BEFORE speaking to the organizers. Probably my bad as both Jack and Don responded to my emails very cordially, They also addressed my concerns.
Please except my apologies if I may have offended anyone but that was not my intention. The 2002 series looks very promising.
Regards, Brady Mitchell
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Indoor longboard love
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On 1/11/2002
Longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(213.48.nnn.nnn)
Chris i was out in the snow on my board before i pooped me achilles tendon on new years day, indoor car parks are a groove any time. As for the Avon boosters and lathes, yes they do work when you stick four-five 3mm grooves in em, it stops the aqua planing.
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Problems of old
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On 1/11/2002 Clingfilm
wrote in from
(195.195.nnn.nnn)
The problem is that the internet is the reason we are all back again and talking. Without this I would still be skating to the shops and back. We had no way of advertising competitions in Europe due to the fact, for UK events at least, the magazines did not want to take the articles or advertise ahead. maybe this is because they were US mags, but there was a lot of down looking at slalom. Bod, Steve Douglas and many other top skaters were very supportive of what we did, as we kept skateboarding alive here with it.
Before this we have all gone our own ways; each country in Europe and probably each State in the US. I am glade that the mid States will be represented. The problem we have now is that we are not all beginners. We are experienced in what we have done before. This means that we have a point of view. We can only unifie these in time.
I think JG has a point that over here we do feel that the FCR for us is inpractical unless you have a airline sponsor. If we had that we could come out a few times during the year, but with out it it is impossible. Yes yes there are contingency plans, but the decision is the FCR or Morro as most will only be able to make one visit.
However there must come a time when these championships and events must take place outside of the US, but this will only happen if we can draw the same suppport and enthusiasm. The X Games is a perfect platform for this, have we lost that target, where are we with that?
The main issue is that good skaters can qualify to enter. If we can turn up, qualify then the process works. I have mentioned before the Scotish compeition where I was ranked last but came third.
Chris
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Euro Events...
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On 1/10/2002
Jack
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Hi JG,
Not sure if it was 1990 or 1991 but I organized "Race Day on Kennedy Way" we had Korten, Dunn, Cross, Evans, Fluitt, Sherman, Brown, myself and a few others racing. No Europeans were present. Kryptonics, who happened to be my employer at the time put up the dough for the insurance policy.
Even though I worked for Kryptonics from 1987 to 1991 I was never aware of any slalom races either in the USA or Europe. Maybe I just didn't pay close enough attention.
There was also a race in Virginia Beach during an NSA event sometime in the late 80's. I think Simon Levene won, Dunn was second.
My hope is to have great numbers of racers from throughout the world competing in competitions all over the planet!
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Titles
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On 1/10/2002
Cliff Coleman
wrote in from
(209.162.nnn.nnn)
The posts of late might make some think that there is a grudge between the USA and other countries. This is a shame! As an American who thinks of himself as a human of the planet first, I want to tell all skaters from outside the US that you are always welcome and highly respected. As years go on I hope that there are contests in many locations around the globe. I also hope that the Europeans and others in the future are brought up to snuff regarding the internet. If I could afford to travel to contests outside the US I would be first in line to go. Most racers probably feel the same way. I have skated in Europe, Australia and here in the US. I've been very fortunate to meet, skate and make lifelong friends with people where ever I have gone. I would love next to go and skate with the Brazilians who I think skate as well as anybody anywhere. THERE ARE GREAT PEOPLE OF ALL NATIONALITIES AROUND THE GLOBE. LET'S NOT LET TITLES AND ASSOCIATIONS BUILD A FENCE BETWEEN US!!!!
Cliff Coleman
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World Comps
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On 1/10/2002 Scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
Oh, and, one other thing....there will be TWO World Champs. One PRO and the other from the OPEN class
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World Comp
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On 1/10/2002
Scabs
wrote in from
(66.21.nnn.nnn)
I`ve exchanged emails with DonO and through our exchanges, not only was he polite, but also precise and diplomatic.
His clarifying points on the qualifying went like this....
(and I`m taking it out of context so these are not his words) Anybody can be a Pro in the series and that`s gonna take a lot of money, whether you`re from the west coast, east coast or europe. You`d better find a sponsor if you want to compete in the "pro" category. The "open" class is just that, an open class with 16 byes seeded from the TLP series and 16 open slots.
Since there are probably as many slalom skaters in the west coast as all of the east and europe combined. This IS probably fair.
If you don`t think you can handle the extra qualifying runs to compete in the Pro World Comp, then enter the Open World Comp. You do your timed runs and then the top 16 bracket from that go against the top 16 from the TLP series.
Keep in mind the promoters of last years events lost money out of thier pockets. It may not be the best system but it`s a start and things can change for next season.
As for the snipes, I think the word should`ve been snips. And yes there was some digs in there.
Lets keep it real and learn from my experiance, just email the guys with your questions or concerns.
I`m going to bed guys...skate safe, Brady ;-)
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The birth of ISSA- Slalom in Europe
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On 1/10/2002
John Gilmour
wrote in from
(151.203.nnn.nnn)
I've raced in Europe. There were a ton of racers over there. About 30 Kids in Switzerland in Hombrechtikon alone (near Zurich) aged 10- 17 in 1991...guess how old they are now? And tons of Adults like myself. There were always over 40 people at nearly every race I attended and if you count the kids at some that went up to close to 70. True Morro Bay 2001 had 68 adults race, but lets not forget some of those were Europeans.
There are also a bunch of Juniors in Italy that are now old enough to compete as adults. Slalom decks have been for sale in Europe for years, in fact they never stopped producing them. To say that there were no slalom races would be absurd. We will find out what races have occured after the fact from the Europeans as they gel togther just like the Americans have over the past year.
I used to ask people "Who is still slaloming in the USA?- in 1991..... the answer from everyone I talked to...."only Jim Korten". Only. I had to get Paul Dunn and Beau Brown out of retirement in 1993 for the Olympic sponsored race in France. Such was the life of the USA slalom coordinator - no one to coordinate. So I trained a bunch of East Coasters. Tom Armstrong was within 1/2- 2 cones of me every time I raced him. John Shei was fast. Taji Saotome ...Jon Rutherford. Why didn't they come over to Europe? Because I always beat them so they figured if I was getting beaten they did not have a chance.
It will take longer for the Europeans to gel together- they are not as computer networked as we are. Ebay Europe is lagging behind the USA (Isn't that how most of us found out about each other and NCDSA?). The fall of the Iron curtain disrupted the Eastern Block skaters financially and disrupted our communcations with them. Jani Soderhall had to make a living and could no longer sacrifice so much of his time to slalom organization.
I bet no one expected so many Americans to come out of slalom retirement. Most Americans get out of shape as they age. The Europeans tend to stay a little more trim so getting back into it will be easier for them.
I expect the same massive "coming out of retirement" from the European skaters.....but the thing is, many of them never retired and just kept slaloming. Many Europeans ride plate bindings and Alpine snowboards- they will transfer these skills to the skateboard slalom courses and so they have a much bigger talent pool to draw from than the USA.
You couldn't believe how many Eastern Block slalomers there are or how many Russian slalomers there are. Street skating did not even hit Russia until about 1991. Problem is I doubt many will be able to afford to travel and without the support of their governments like in the past it is likely that they will have trouble traveling.
Gints Gailitis of Latvia has entered over 200 slalom contests, many in the Eastern Block countries. It is very unlikely that they stopped having contests completely.
All any American slalomer had to do to find out about the European races before they were held was....the same thing he had to do to find out about American races- Call Kryptonics and ask who has hit them up for prizes for slalom races. The difference was that the European races were announced up to a year in advance so you had plenty of time to prepare. I was sent Slalom! magazine after someone at Kryptonics sent it to me with some Kryptonics CS-62's slalom wheels in the 1980's.
Magazines rarely announced the races in advance so if you weren't in the California loop you didn't find out about a race from a magazine until after it happened. As for not having any ISSA contests in the USA , we were planning to- but as I said in 1991 there were no Active slalomers in the USA other than Jim Korten. Just a few scattered amateurs at GGP and Central Park and South Beach in Miami. To have everyone fly over for 2 racers , Korten and myself, would have been absurd. But guess what- I bet the Europeans would have flown over to race as few as 8 Americans. Somehow I doubt some Americans would do the same.
Having time to prepare is fair- and makes for much better faster competitive racing.
The last European race I attended was in 1995. After that I focused on my snowboard company and moved about 4 times losing complete contact as Jani Soderhall also moved, and the fall of the Berlin wall was very disruptive to the European slalom scene.
Americans complain about lack of representation in Europe.Considering that the only people slaloming were myself and Korten- the USA was way OVER represented. ISSA wanted the USA to be involved and looked to the USA to be involved and hoped to have the USA scene start again.
The UK skaters were no where to be found- the courses were too loose by the tighter UK standards. The only time I ever competed against a UK skater in Europe was racing Simon Gunning at the Olympic sponsored race in 1993. Slalom was much less prevalent in the UK than in Switzerland, Italy, France, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Sweden.
ISSA did miss not having the UK represented at the leetings, and Russia and Latvia missed the UK the most as they also practiced 1 meter slalom. If the UK had come to teh races it is likely that Ultra tight slalom would have become a regular ISSA event with 3 countries voting for it.
Well I sat in on the meetings voting for the USA 1991-1995, and so did Chris Yandall for a meeting in 1993, Peter Camann was one of the people who helped Jani, and was one of the very FIRST financial supporters of forming The ISSA. How ironic is it that some Americans would like to see ISSA go away when Peter Camann, an American, helped in forming The ISSA mission statement. Another American pledged his support to ISSA financially by sponsoring several races, Dan Gesmer, who started the Seismic race series which ran in several countries.
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Snipe
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On 1/10/2002
Don O'Shei
wrote in from
(64.160.nnn.nnn)
Merriam-Webster Dictionary
snipe: to aim a carping or snide attack
carping: to find fault or complain querulously
marked by or inclined to querulous and often perverse criticism
querously: 1 : habitually complaining
2 : FRETFUL, WHINING (emphasis in the original)
Don O'Shei
FCR/TLP
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words
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On 1/10/2002 adam trahan
wrote in from
(208.203.nnn.nnn)
snipe from http://www.dictionary.com
*snipe (snp) n.
1.pl. snipe or snipes
a.Any of various long-billed shore birds
2.A shot, especially a gunshot, from a concealed place.
intr.v. sniped, snip·ing, snipes
1.To shoot at individuals from a concealed place.
2.To shoot snipe.
3.To make malicious, underhand remarks or attacks.
It is my opinion that Mr.O'Shei and TLP have not been sniped here. We have all identified ourselves in a respectful, productive discussion, a peaceful one at that. Please do not take this someplace where it doesn't belong. Let's run the course clean.
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