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| Bearing Reviews (4976 Posts)
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Derby ain't stand up boys
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On 6/14/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
All,
These will be my final comments on this dry bearing foolishness.
While it has become apparent that Soap Box racing is a very high tech sport... the speeds that you all are talking about are on the low end of stand up downhill skating. The ramifications of a seized bearing in your cars are not nearly as grave as they will be on a downhill skateboard. Think about what Pre-school said... there is wisdom in those words.
If after all of the impassioned posts that have been placed concerning the necessity of lubrication, you still insist on riding on bearings bent on destruction, then it is your mothers and brothers and sisters and fathers that I feel sorry for. For you alone are accountable and responsible for your own safety.
It does pain me to say that this sport of downhill skateboarding may not be for you. And your advice on bearings is to be discarded as foolish as well as dangerous...
May your speed be slow when you discover the error in your reasoning... Soap Box Derby is not skating... HR
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Non-lubed bearings
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On 6/14/2000 Pre-School Rider
wrote in from
(209.198.nnn.nnn)
Doobie,LugeDemon,way back in the good old days,we had bearings that were OPEN,called Loose-Ball Bearings.We used to have to clean these quite often due to dirt intake.Oil or grease would give the dirt something to stick to,and the resulting goo/earth mixture slowed you down a lot.So,a buddy of mine came to the conclusion that no lube was the way to go.Yup.And go he did.I'd say he hit close to 35 on ol' Wateringtrough Hill(using 55mm Power Paws)before a bit of dirt in his bearing cause it to sieze. The thing that strikes me as being quite ironic here is that neither of you SoapBox guys has stopped to consider that your Skateboard wheels are much smaller(which does dramatically increase the RPM's for a given speed vs. SoapBox wheels)so that puts them quite close to DIRT.Having rode skateboards for 28 years,and luged for 20 years,I'd say that while you may have found a tech tip for staged sprints,you have yet to see the folly in your approach when applied to Skateboards.26 years since my bud had that crash,but history is yet to be repeated by one of you,unless you figure out WHY non-lubed bearings is bad for skateboarding.I'm one of those lucky souls who have had my wheels melt,seen my luges tires pass me down a 9% grade,felt my bearings blow off the axle,and walked away from these things with mere road-rash,spains,and bruised ego.What you propose,running skateboard bearings un-lubed,in my experience,is adding one more hazard to your activities. To quote Obi-Wan;"Who is more foolish,the fool,or the one following the fool?". I certainly won't be following your advice.
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oops I forgot
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On 6/14/2000 DOOBIE
wrote in from
(63.17.nnn.nnn)
oh yeah, rally racing in soap box is harder cause you have to travel around the country collecting points to be competitive. :)
---DOOBIE
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Another Epic Tale of the Dry Bearings
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On 6/14/2000
DOOBIE
wrote in from
(63.17.nnn.nnn)
Ok, when you are riding on CLEAN bearings, that means that your bearings are free from any foreign objects that means lube, Dirt, etc. If your bearings are CLEAN than you are getting the maximum potential out of your bearings. In a Soap Box Derby car, in Akron, Ohio at the world championships, you are going like 40-45 MPH depending on your car and the driver. Lugedemon knows what I'm talking about, and he is a succesful racer too. For those who don't believe me(about my world championship title), go to www.aasbd.org and click on 61st champs. scroll down till you see stock rally. then there is my name, Robby DuBroc (that's where Doobie comes from, my friends sometimes call me that) click on my name and you will see a picture of mine and my Trophy. that is my old car by the way. and Lugedemon, tell them where to find yours, I know you placed quite am few times. I just went to the local shop and got some new bones swiss black, they come prelubed, but I won't lube them again.
---DOOBIE
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Dry Bearings (again)
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On 6/14/2000 lugedemon3
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
in soap box racing, sometimes it comes down to .001 seconds between success and failure. u don't think about risks when cometition is that stiff. To burn/ sieze a bearing, u would have to exceed approx 45mph on a hill that is 3 MILES LONG.( on a luge or speedboard, w/dry bearings). Another point; lube does not protect as much as u think it does, it actually attracts sand particles and dirt, and if u don't clean your bearings, they lose their precision very quickly. U'd have to get u'r bearings EXTREMELY hot in order to seize them up. -----speed is worth the risk, because the risk is slim
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Dry Bearings
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On 6/14/2000
lugedemon3
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Adam & Cris hit it right on the money
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Dry Bearings
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On 6/14/2000
Hamm
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Adam brings up a very good point about wheel diameter and the RPM's of those wheels. I'm not sure how fast those SoapBoxDerby cars run, but my guess is that your skateboard wheels probably turn faster while your going down a even a gradual hill than the Derby wheels turn at top speed.
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Running Bearings Dry
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On 6/14/2000
Chris
wrote in from
(208.164.nnn.nnn)
Okay, so I've read this whole thing on running the bearings dry. First of all, regardless of Doobie's age, if he really did win the World Championship in soap box derby, he probably knows a fair amount about bearings. I've reread his original post and I'm not sure whether his method is really running the bearings dry. He says that the final step is adding some sort of lighter fluid. My guess is that the lighter fluid has small amount of low viscosity oil in it, so when the fuel evaporates away what is left is a very thin coating of a low viscosity. The end result would be not a dry bearing, but a very lightly lubed (and possibly and very fast) bearing. I've heard of streetlugers doing something similar with kerosine. I would assume that if this were done regularly, there might not be any serious effects. The problem would be if this very light lubrication broke down and you really did run the bearing dry. This could cause it to seize on you, which as DT pointed out would be bad. For a highly competitive skater, it might be worth the risk, especially if you were getting a real benefit. Plus, equipment like Randal Comps with floating axles would minimize this risk. You would have to fry three bearings (both in the axle and one in a wheel) before you would be in trouble.
For myself, I tend to buy good quality bearings and use a traditional light lube. I don't want to have worry about lubing all the time, and usually I don't. For myself, the benefit that I might get from very precise bearing lubing would be quickly offset by the fact that there are a lot of racers who are just plain faster than me. The biggest factor in almost any race is the skill of the racer. It's only when you get to the point that the racers are almost evenly matched that these minute details make a difference.
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Dry Bearings
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On 6/14/2000 Adam
wrote in from
(207.251.nnn.nnn)
Interesting debate, I must say. From my vantage point, both sides are correct. For those uninitiated to the cult of Soapbox Derby racing I've posted a picture of a car and driver. These races have been going on since 1933 -- way before gravity cars and luges were ever conceived of. They are very high-tech and ultra-competitive and each racing season culminates in a national meet.
The SBD racer's attention to technology is legendary. In fact, I'd bet speedboarders and luge racers could learn a thing or two from SBD racers.
Minimizing resistance, even the tiniest amount, will result in a faster start and a faster run. SBD races begin from a standstill, i.e. no pushing off. From my experience, dry bearings will spin between your fingers easier and faster than any lubed bearing, so this approach makes sense to me for SBD cars.
Notice the large diameter of their wheels when compared to skateboard wheels. This translates into far slower rotational speed, which in turn minimizes heat build up and the likelihood of seizing a bearing. Their bearings are also further from the dirty street, which decreases the chance of contamination.
I would think that lubed bearings would certainly last longer than dry bearings in an SBD car, but we’re probably talking about the difference between hundreds of runs dry, vs thousands of runs lubed. If dry bearings were even a tiny bit faster than lubed, which would you run in your SBD car?
For non-competitive skateboards and such, I strongly recommend lubed bearings for all the engineering reasons. For competitive speedboarding, luging, and buttboarding, I’d have to weigh the danger of a potential bearing seizure against the added speed, if any, that dry bearings could add. Being "Mr. Skate Safe" myself, I’d opt for lubed, for as DT rightly states, crashing from a seized, intentionally dry bearing is a stupid fall.
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Bearings-lubed/dry
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On 6/14/2000
Jonas
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
My previous occupation was a Tech at a German-auto repair facility.We worked on high end cars like BMW,Porsche,MBZ,etc., and I saw LOTS of bearing failure so I feel I am speaking from experience. Typical bearings are meant to be lubed!!! This is an imperfect world and lubrication is intended to make things work better/longer.
Think of it this way: Even though it might make your car slightly faster,would you ever run one without oil(engine,tranny,or diff)? If so...go for it...there are alot of mechanics that would like the work!!Just make sure no-one you care about is in the car with you,and make sure you don't do it on a public road.Nuf-said...
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Dry Bearings
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On 6/14/2000
Hamm
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Run bearings dry??? OOOHHH, that a good one!!!!!!!!
Oh, and I hear that the transmission in your car will shift better if drain that pesky fluid that cause resistance!!!!
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DRY BEARINGS
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On 6/14/2000
DOOBIE
wrote in from
(158.252.nnn.nnn)
Hugh-
While racing Soap Box Derby cars, I reasearched this subject with a few members of our "race team". We went to a shop, that sells bearings ONLY. We asked him what the best lube was that we could get and he saw our bearings and said on these you should just keep clean and dry for what you are using them for. I then asked about skateboard bearings and he told me that if they are PRECISION bearings that they are designed to expand with heat and need no lube. so heat is not a problem. Try it. flush them with carbeurator cleaner first. He also advised that any motor operated devices need lubricant, preferably grease, as these create heat faster and more significant.
---DOOBIE
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bearings
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On 6/14/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Dry bearing people,
I would suggest that before you rely on the words of us old guys, that you contact some companies that manufacture bearings (not the ones that just distribute them)
I believe that what you will find that it is recommended that all percison bearings be lubricated. Where the discussion will come in is as to what type of lubricant is best, grease, oil, teflon, etc...
Bearings have metal surfaces that ride upon each other. And as such, lubrication is necessary.
Do the research and if by chance a bearing mfg recommends running their product dry, then at that point I personally will be willing to accept your position. Until that time, I will lube my bearings and consider running them dry as an abuse of equipment and as an unnecessary risk... hugh r
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dry bearings
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On 6/14/2000
evan
wrote in from
(203.56.nnn.nnn)
I have to agree with doobie, I have dry bearings (not flushed, just old and never lubed ridden in the rain but no grit or dings), they are 1 year old, abec3 chinese nachi's. decent quality, but nothing fantastic. They have taken me to 60kph on many occasions (2.5km runs), once to 70kph, I think that's around 40mph. Most times when I finish a run I check both the wheels and the bearings for heat. everytime the wheels have been hot on the surface, but the bearings have always been cool.
adios
evan
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one more thing
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On 6/14/2000
DOOBIE
wrote in from
(63.27.nnn.nnn)
on a side note-
- I've been running my Bones Swiss Gold for 3 years Dry and flushed and they still are perfect. you just have to maintain your bearings like lugedemon said. If you don't, THEN they seize up. You just have to clean them once in a while, that's all.
DOOBIE
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DRY BEARINGS
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On 6/14/2000
DOOBIE
wrote in from
(63.27.nnn.nnn)
I have to dissagree with you on that one DT. Listen to lugedemon, he knows his stuff. Have you ever tried running them dry?!? NO. Doesn't make assumptions unless you know what you are talking about. I have done alot of research on this subject along with older, more knowledgeble folks. Thats why all of you old schoolers are hated by many people. You just assume that us Yungins don't know anything. Well we do. We can find out about anything we want, and it is you old guys that we try to learn from and then we get a bunch of crap from you whenwe try to put in our 2 cents. and by the way, I share an Email adress with 2 of my friends and occasionally we'll ask the same question on here to help get an answer for one that has been ignored.
Late-
DOOBIE
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Dry bearings
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On 6/14/2000 lugedemon3
wrote in from
(151.188.nnn.nnn)
Actually, he is an experienced racer, but not in longboarding, in the Soap Box Derby.( which requires more precision then in speedboarding. He knows more than u think, just 'cause he is 15 dont mean jack, he knows what he's talk'n about. I raced in the Derby for 8 years, and the dry bearing procedure is frequently used. Bearings don't sieze up unless they are not maintained properly.
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Re: Run your bearings dry & Doobie/Robb/Dave
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On 6/14/2000
DT
wrote in from
(63.30.nnn.nnn)
No, you are not an experienced racer, you are 15.
RUNNING YOUR BEARINGS DRY WILL CAUSE THEM TO SEIZE AND FAIL. USUALLY THEY WILL FAIL AT A HIGHER SPEED, WHICH WILL POTENTIALLY CAUSE A VERY PAINFUL AND STUPID CRASH. and if this is at a high speed with no pads that person may die.
if your bearings seize they are useless and worthless, so don't turn your expensive bearings into trash.
Doobie/Robb/Dave,
If this is a joke, than please stop making them, if you are serious than you should put some type of lubricant in your bearings. Also please dont act like your different people. It is misleading and not appreciated.
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German bearings
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On 6/13/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
On Germans... Do not confuse the bearings marked GMN with the bearings marked NMB. The quality of the two is not the same. The GMN are "okay" bearings. The NMB bearings were always the "cadillacs" of bearings.
I have both types and my 20+ year old NMB's are still the smoothest, sweetest bearings I have ever owned. Keep in mind that I do not abuse my stuff and when I bought them in the late 70's I paid $4.00 per bearing...
I have not purchased a set of the swiss bearings, but no doubt the quality will be high. I have used swiss sewing machines that had bearings through out, and they are amazingly smooth... so they will most likely be my next purchase... HR
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GMNs
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On 6/13/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(207.198.nnn.nnn)
just triflo them,that should loosen them up,I don't think we've been looking back on GMN's though a rosey mirror, but it is possible.They may be greased which will eventually come up to speed,if you can keep them clean that long.
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german bearings
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On 6/13/2000 Corsa Ta
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Hey everybody, I have a couple sets of old german bearings that I've never used until a couple of days ago. I dug them out because I've read some nice things about them but when I tried them they were very slow. They had never been riden before and they have been sitting around for about 15 years. Do you think they need to be broken in or cleaned. If they need to be cleaned is there any special way to go about cleaning old german bearings
Thanks
Corsa
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608
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On 6/13/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(207.198.nnn.nnn)
I.D.8.0mm well maybe a tiny bit smaller when you pull the calipers out its like 7.97 mm.
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bearings, dry???
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On 6/13/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Doobie,
I think the dynamics of skate wheels are a little different than what you are used too... I would not suggest running bearings in the "dry mode" on your boards. All bearings that I know of are designed to be lubed.
Although the speed that skateboard wheels will push a bearing is well under the specs of even the cheapest bearings, the amount of heat generated by the ride needs to be absorbed/countered by the lube in the bearings... my two cents... HR
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608 Size
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On 6/12/2000
Jonas
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
7.938 ID,22 OD,7 Width(in mm of course!)
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speed demons
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On 6/12/2000
bomber
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
they are so smooth and fast they are a skateboard bearing
and not many longboarders I know use them but they are
awsome.
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