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| Q&A: Michael Brooke - Publisher, Concrete Wave Magazine (7141 Posts)
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Tagging
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On 6/15/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I don't think that there's much of a difference between tagging and skating when the skating destroys or defaces property, or when the presence of the taggers or skaters is an unwelcomed trespass.
Both are acts of people who are either too lazy or too stupid to create a canvas of their own on which to practice their craft. Both groups are cowards and rely on their ability to either do it undercover or to run like hell when the law comes.
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oh my...
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On 6/15/2006 Bara
wrote in from
United States
(204.78.nnn.nnn)
That's all fine and dandy...
And Jesus tells us to "turn the other cheek"
But unless you understand the undertones of what He says in that statement, then it's impact is overlooked.
then again, this thread isnt about violence...this thread is about kids street skating in an area where they arent invited, arent welcome, and where their continued presense will have a negative impact on an otherwise positive skatescene in Statesville, which is an odd 'burg in that it's actually welcomed skaters with open arms.
Trying to reason with the perps' is best.....obviously...
Saying "back off or else" will be pointless, in fact probably make it worse.
But if they keep it up, and skating is banned in that town, then the guys who have been working with the town have every right to hold a chip on their shoulder....and when that happens, anything is possible, from open talks, to an old fashioned whoopin...all bets are off....whether anybody is for it or against it is irrelevent, it's just the way things work ...
And the people who are causing the problem have nobody else to blame but themselves.
And Ian....Society decides what society accepts, not skaters....i'm guessing you had to be kidding with your post, yes?
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Well said....
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On 6/15/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
A very well put post Dave. It is hard for many to understand that lashing out just is not a positive thing. An eye for and eye makes the whole world blind.
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THE POWER OF NON-VIOLENCE
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On 6/15/2006
HACKETT - BLACK LEATHER RACING
wrote in from
United States
(68.66.nnn.nnn)
Nonviolence in its dynamic condition means conscious suffering. It does not mean meek submission to the will of the evil-doer, but it means the pitting of one's whole should against the will of the tyrant. Working under this law of our being, it is possible for a single individual to defy the whole might of an unjust empire to save his honour, his religion, his soul and lay the foundation for that empire's fall or its regeneration.
Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. Destruction is not the law of the humans. Man lives freely by his readiness to die, if need be, at the hands of his brother, never by killing him. Every murder or other injury, no matter for what cause, committed or inflicted on another is a crime against humanity.
Matchless Bravery
An armed soldier relies on his weapons for his strength. Take away from him his weapons--his gun or his sword, and he generally becomes helpless. But a person who has truly realized the principle of nonviolence has the God-given strength for his weapon and the world has not known anything that can match it.
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
Nonviolence of the strong is any day stronger than that of the bravest soldier fully armed or a whole host.
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Wax it up...
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On 6/15/2006 Ian
wrote in from
Canada
(70.82.nnn.nnn)
Hey Marion, get a tape measure and go around town and measure all the square footage in your town that is covered in wax and is being skated. Now go around town and measure the square footage of walls that are tagged with spray-paint. Don't even get me started on the square milage of damage caused by the pursuit of many churches and their fear-mongering.
Skateparks are nice, but they are still a cage. Skateboarding evovled from the streets, lets keep fighting to keep it in the streets.
Wax-it-up, let the kids skate.
What society needs to accept is that chipped waxed curbs are a symbol of a healthy community where kids have good direction.
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Concrete Wave Vol.5 N.1
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On 6/15/2006
Markintosh
wrote in from
Canada
(69.199.nnn.nnn)
Concrete Wave Summer 2006 (Vol.5 N.1)
Enjoy this issue!
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violence...and skateboarding
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On 6/15/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(67.70.nnn.nnn)
violence and hockey?
violence and basketball?
it would appear that violence can rear its head in many situations...
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Targets
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On 6/14/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Have you ever seen Vallely get in people's face because they are asking him to stop vandalizing the property that is his job is to protect? He targets the weak, the underpaid, and the outnumbered, while video cameras roll tape, helping to perpetuate the notion that owning a skateboard gives someone a license to act like a jackass without any repercussions. Nice lesson.
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yeah....
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
In this case you are right Chaput, although a little off the topic at hand. I am what I like to call a violent pacifist. Defense of yourself and loved ones is one thing. I will defend myself, mywife, ect. Violence against kids waxing a curb is different. I really doubt the kids in question of what we are discussing and gonna get in your face.
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Fire with fire
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On 6/14/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Steve C, I can't wait to see what happens when someone gets in your face and starts poking his finger into your chest, your nose, your crotch - whatever. Maybe the same psycho stalker a-hole does it to your girlfriend, your mom, or your daughter. Are you just going to bend over and give him another place to poke? Extend that jerk an olive branch and it will find its way into the same crevice that you offered his finger. Not only are there times when violence is acceptable, there are times when it is the only language that some can understand.
I use it only as a last resort, but it can be very effective. It's great way to difuse a bully. If someone is going to get hurt, better him than me. Am I condoning all violence? Not even close. But when people push, and push, and push, I reserve the right to push back, and usually harder.
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the larger issue
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On 6/14/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(70.49.nnn.nnn)
I have been ruminating on this topic (gawd I LOVE that word!) for the better part of 24 hours. I sense it is really part of a much larger issue. Perhaps we are entering a period where adults who skate and teens/children who skate are going to have to learn to cooperate on a number of different levels.
A number of issues back Mike Moore wrote about being on the same wavelength - despite the generation differences.
It's difficult though...For example, many teenagers, roll their eyes when they see adults going mental to AC/DC or the Pistols...but hey, a lot of us reading this forum have fond memories. I often think my kids will rebel by listening to opera.
Perhaps what we are collectively realizing here is that we have the power to change the perceptions of skateboarding. I always default back to the "motorcycle world." From bike gangs like the Hells Angels to CHips to dirt racers, motorbikes span a huge number of demographics. (I know, cringe factor is set to 11 with that word, but I had no choice).
My argument has always been that there is room for everyone and that the FOCUS must be on skateboarding. By keeping it focused on skateboarding, everyone is on the same page. Fashion doesn't enter it...it's about EVERYONE enjoying the act of skateboarding...wax, wood, cement, etc. etc.
Easier said than done...but the reality is that these types of conversations are happening more frequently and that, as they say, is a good thing.
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read what i said
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On 6/14/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(69.14.nnn.nnn)
i said that surfers would not destroy the place they ride ...
and if one of them did for sh*ts and giggle, they'd govern themselves...
This is an opinion, i'm not from the beach
I'm from Detroit
thus, the attitude
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so violence is cool....
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
Violence is ok cause surfers would do it. I can't even humor this assertion. Vilence is wrong.
Maybe we should just get the lynch mob together and hang some of em. Then they would think twice about what they are doing. Lord knows that trying to find a solution that does not involve the cops or violence is not a good idea.
People should try and work things out other ways. I have nothing more to say.
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opinions
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On 6/14/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(69.14.nnn.nnn)
....agreed...but you have to admit that just because private property is destroyed by a skateboard doesnt make it any more okay than if it was done with a baseball bat....
So if they do it, so be it, but if they get busted, then no pity.
The bad part abot Marions situation is a few kids with an "i dont give a sh*t" attitude may ruin it for allot of people who really do care...he's got a great scene going on there.
And if the street skaters are jacking on something that is off limits (like a church in the bible belt) then its going to be a problem for everybody in that town.
Personally, if somebody messed up my scene, i'd be pissed.
Put it this way, we skate up on some hills at a community college...never had a big problem with the police...then a few months ago we got the boot...not for something we did though./...we got the boot because some street skaters were grinding the benches and messing s#@! up....one got hurt and his mom raised a stink with the school....that kid can blow me...he took no responsiblity, (by obviously being taught by his moms ways) for his own actions....we go to other places and get the boot too...not because of what we do, but because street skaters have destroyed the property...
So it leaves a bad taste...
The skate and destroy thing is bulls#@!.
Can you imagine this conversation on a surfing site?
If somebody was messing up the beach and water, the other surfers would be all in his s#@!....And like CC's saying, they're probably be some asskicking...
Consider if "selfgoverning"
And skating supposedly came from surfing
So why so much tollerance?
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well..
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
Everyone has their opinion. My poke at Chaput is pretty simple. I am totally anti violence. I am sorry if I come across as an ass. I am just passionate about stuff. The beauty of all this is that we don't have to see eye to eye. I respect peoples opinion to a point and then I just don't agree with stuff. I am sorry if I come across the wrong way. I am just involved in this whole discussion. I am not however sorry about my poke at Chaput. Violence does not have a place and is never justified in my opinion. I will keep my mouth shut from now on.
All I am saying is that the arrest people approach is not the best. It will get some kids in trouble and won't stop the problem. And kicking peoples asses is totally unacceptable.
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ironic
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On 6/14/2006
bara
wrote in from
United States
(69.14.nnn.nnn)
Hey Steve, for a guy who plays himself off as being "progressive" and open minded, it's pretty funny how you take such massive offense when anybody poses an opinion that contradicts your own, down to the point where you've already taken a verbal strike at me, Wes and Chaput....
so what's that youre trying to say about peoples freedom to express themselves?...walk the walk
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Common Sense
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On 6/14/2006 Chuck Gill
wrote in from
United States
(192.249.nnn.nnn)
WT has it right. If kids, who happen to be skateboarding, or blading, or biking, or whatever, are trespassing and damaging property they should be arrested. Period. Sure, give Marion or anyone else a chance to reach out to them and see if they will listen. If they do...great. If not, bust 'em. If they go somewhere else, bust 'em again. Fine their parents, and more importantly give the kids community service fixing damaged or vandalized property, or chatting with little old ladies in the hospital with broken hips. Why should the actions of a few who choose to disregard the law ruin a town's welcoming embrace of skateboarding for those who do play by the rules? Because they're kids??? WTF??? When did age, lifestyle or sport choice, etc. become a reason not to arrest and charge a criminal?
I don't know what the laws are in NC, but down here in Fla (and I suspect many other states) all a property owner has to do is post a sign and notify police, and anyone doing any activity on his property that is not approved can be arrested on sight. It's not the skateboarding that is the crime, but the destruction of others' property that sometimes accompanies it that is. Sure seems like a simple concept to me.
As far as public skateparks...I am all for them. And if they are free, so much the better. Every town SHOULD have a skatepark or two. But don't think for a second that will stop some people from damaging private property. If I had a dollar for every time I saw kids leave the free park I skate at, to go skate a nearby church's stairs, I wouldn't have to be working anymore.
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haha
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
For sure Wax. I apologize. What was I thinking?
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Todays topic
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On 6/14/2006 WAX
wrote in from
United States
(67.176.nnn.nnn)
Come on guys...lets keep this kind of fighting and arguing on the slalom forum please! :)
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Right on Chaput
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
Chris Chaput Wrote:Having the crap beat out of you can be an effective deterent, if the behavior warrants it. I'm all for doing whatever it takes to get the message across.
Lashing out at people in violence is a great way to deal with problems. You should know Chaput. That is a great attitude. Especially since this whole issue is dealing with kids. Go out and bash some heads! That's a great ide!
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Some Laws Should Never Be Written
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On 6/14/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
We all laugh sometimes because some town has a ridiculous and stupid law on the books. You know the type: "It shall be illegal to walk a sheep down Maple Street between the hours of 2:00 AM and Sunrise." Sometime in the distant past, Old Man Johnson got up every night and walked his sheep down the road and the "baa baa baa" woke up the Mayor so he got a law passed to stop it. A hundred years after Old Man Johnson, the sheep and the mayor are long dead, it's still on the books and no one knows why.
I can see 100 years from now Marion Karr, VII, CEO of the global corporation ExecQuest Worldwide is reading the laws down at City Hall and comes across this one: " It shall be illegal within the town limits of Statesville to smear wax on the church steps."
He'll be scratching his head on that one all the way back to his spaceship that takes him to his branch office on Ganymede.
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Boundaries
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On 6/14/2006
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
There's this wild new concept called, "holding people accountable for their actions" that may be worth considering. An insanely enabling culture combined with a terminally "bro" mentality and persecution complex is a recipe for disaster. It basically means that no matter what someone does, we're suppose to just bend over and take it, and to try to be more compassionate and understanding of the issues that befall the violator. It's as if having boundaries is selfish, and no one should ever be able to say or do anything when violated. It's a crock of sh!#, and it is condoned and perpetuated by much of the media today. They treat it as if it's cute. They prepare "how to" manuals for each new season of skaters. It's about as smart and valuable as teaching kids that "doing time in the big house" is cool.
Trespassing, destroying or defacing property, and vandalism isn't cute, isn't funny, and isn't even necessary in this day and age. The only way that any punk is going to understand the concept of boundaries is when he is held accountable for his behavior. Period. It's not about threats. It's not about second or thrid chances. It's not about understanding HIM better. It's about doors slamming in his face. It's about the word, "NO". No. Not in my yard. Not in my car. Not on my couch. Not in my house. Not on my phone. Not on my credit card. Not on my property. Not with my girlfriend. Not with my money. No.
Fines can be a nice touch. Having licenses taken away seems to work. Jail cell bars are a pretty solid way of saying no. Having the crap beat out of you can be an effective deterent, if the behavior warrants it. I'm all for doing whatever it takes to get the message across. There are skateboarders such as myself who have property, loved ones, pets, and objects of value that are off limts to others. And just because someone owns a skateboard doesn't mean that he gets any breaks if he crosses the line with me. There are boundaries and there are limits. Break them at your own risk.
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current topic??
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On 6/14/2006
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
All the knowledge is not held by old schoolers, but their perspective is a little different, because they saw the transition (for lack of better words) in the 82 time frame. And true, skating in the 70’s does not give any special key skateboarding insight. What could possibly give insight is in knowing that barging a skate spot is illegal because of “why” not “what”. When we got in trouble (in the 70’s) for skating pools, or parking garages, or ditches, it was not because we were skateboarding. It was because it was illegal to be on the property. Whether you were playing with paper dolls, model airplanes, sniffing glue, or skateboarding; it was illegal, or the case could easily be made that is was illegal. It was not until the early 80’s, perpetuated by the skate and destroy mindset(in my opinion) , that skateboarding in and of its self became the bad guy. If being a 70’s skater does not give special insight, it does enable at the issue to be seen from both sides of the fence. This is what I base my thoughts on. Its my real life experience and not something I read about and superimposed thoughts in to.
Maybe our region was a little different than others’. For whatever reason, it enabled us to see things from a different perspective. The funny thing is, most all the other older skaters I talk with say something very similar. I have a letter from an early Thrasher that said the same thing. Does it make the old guys authorities? No. Does it give them a different perspective? Yes
The neat thing about the Marion’s situation is that the city has apparently recognized the legitimacy of separating “skateboarding” and “illegal”, by contacting a known organization that they feel can make a difference. All the barging and “that was then/this is now” topics aside, The city has made a monumental move. Will it turn out for the good? Or will it prove to be another bad decision, that can possibly even discredit the Marion and the DHB organization? That seems like a critical issue. Somehow the thoughts need to turn from “those people interfering with my skating” which is a me-me-me thought process, to a situation of respect for others property; which can be a we-we-we thought process. If you can show respect, you can gain respect. This is the avenue Marion and DHB will probably take.
The 65 skateboard ban was not about being illegal. It was about killing the market on an item that was viewed as a menace and a source of injury, by making it a severe penalty to market or sell them. The closest comparison I can think of is the clacker toys (two acrylic balls on a string). Those were yanked very quickly from the market. Those were seen as flat out dangerous (impacts and shattering) as well as a weapon. Very similar to toy or product recall. I could be very wrong on the ‘65 skateboard ban, and I will accept that. I was not there, Larry was DEFINITELY there.
Or maybe I am just wrong all the way around.
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Who gets busted?
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On 6/14/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
Sidewalks are public areas. Some driveways are public areas. Parking lots of civic buildings are public areas. Roads are public areas. School playgrounds and parking lots are public areas. Kids skating in these places are cool.
Church porches, church sidewalks, business parking lots, business locations, business driveways, business access roads, private homes, driveways and similar PRIVATE properties are NOT public places.
Skate on private property and suffer the consequences of the law. That is, IF the property owner decides to lodge a complaint. No one, though, just has the right to cross the line and thrash another man's property. Do it and suffer the consequences.
Do you arrest everybody on a skateboard? I believe I started this by saying skateboarding is not a crime. Pay attention. It won't be so difficult.
Who is responsible? Do I know? No. It's not my job to know. Believe it or not, though, the police are sometimes rather adept at finding who commits a crime. It's called "investigation." In other words, a guy in a squad car asks around the neighborhood, "hey, do you know who's skating at the chruch?" After a while, he'll find out it's Spike McGee on his popsicle stick and the police go to have a chat with Mr. and Mrs. Mcgee. Crime solved, no skateboarders are harmed in the execution of this warrant, just vandals and trespassers.
See? The skaters don't have to do the police's job. The police don't have to work all that hard and the City and County don't have to pass a slew of new ordinances. Just enforce what's on the books and everyone is happy: the churches aren't vadalized anymore, the DHBs can still have an urban assault at 11:00 at night and the kickflippers have to find a public access area where they can stand in once place and spend two hours not nailing some new move.
Easy.
When did it become mandatory we pander to jerks who just don't give a damn about someone else's property?
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well..
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
I guess the person who put the wax on the curb could be held responible. But who is this person? Do you know? Do you just start arresting people for skating in the area? Arrest everyone who skates downtown? If a kid is in the area we should arrest them if they have a skateboard? It might not even be a skateboarder who waxed this stuff. It could have been a rollerblader or biker. I am just saying that perhaps calling the cops and cracking down is not the answer. I thought that is what Marion was trying to avoid.
I guess you could start arresting all the skaters. Let the witchhunt begin. I am amazed that people don't try to support the scene and solve a problem. You really think the person who waxed this curb is happy someone got hurt. That is really bizzare. There used to be unity in the scene. I guess the times they are a changing.
And just because someone is older it does not mean they are wise. IF they are wise they are wise. Being old means you are old, it does not make you special.
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