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| Q&A: Michael Brooke - Publisher, Concrete Wave Magazine (7141 Posts)
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The Clueless Ones
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On 7/20/2006 Fingered
wrote in from
United States
(67.49.nnn.nnn)
"A little research can help your point be viewed with credibility because it would have clearly shown the research you did, rather than some scattered angry
emotions that lack hard facts. If you look at their own story, they were doing
this back in 1997 when there was no resurgence of punk music let alone pool
skating and vert focus in skateboarding. From my standpoint it looks like they
were just doing their own thing when none of this stuff was getting the spot
light it is getting now."
First off, just because you have some lame company called Punk Rock Skateboards gives you no credibility whatsoever.
Second off, doing this back in 1997, It appears they just jumped on the band wagon in 1997 as a Johnny Come Lately wanna be poseur like they are.
Third off, the only resurgance in punk and pool skating was by guys that started skating again and thought the world stopped when they stopped years before, DUH! Surprise, there was plenty of us that continued on and there was a whole scene going on that some people new nothing about, because, they had no part of it.
There is nothing funnier then the clueless people that had no part of a a scene trying to claim they created one when they started skating again. Maybe had these people not been stuck in a hole they would have known that punk and pool skating never died. Nice of you to climb out and notice what we all been doing all these years.
Good on ya Steve, you have called it spot on every time.
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White Castles...mmmmm
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On 7/20/2006 Dave g
wrote in from
United States
(72.65.nnn.nnn)
Across from Wallahalla(sp) was a White Castles 4 burgers(kinda) for a buck We could even bumper ride the bus a few miles and save a quarter!
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Food Nostalgia
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On 7/20/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
I remember when the "food of choice" for skaters was ALWAYS tacos from Taco Bell. In the '70s we could get FOUR TACOS for a DOLLAR plus a drink. There were no "combos," but you could always scrounge around and find enough change to make a run for the border.
Pizza, burgers, subs or whatever were ok, but why spend that kind of money when you could pig out at Taco Bell and still keep on budget to order those new Park Riders from Val Surf?
Back in the day, man, we had PRIORITIES!
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where's the beef?
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On 7/20/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(70.49.nnn.nnn)
I am not sure if there really is any beef....
I think it's just a sense of "ah, crap"
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fashion
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On 7/20/2006
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
David V wrote: "While I don't give a rat's a** if the local crew approves of my skating wardrobe"
You must not have any kids in the 8-16year old range. I can tell you, as a parent who skates and does not care about the fashion one iota either, that the kids DEFINITELY do care. Whether they skater or not, this age group hits the skater fashion market extremely hard.
What is the real beef or discussion on this topic? I have lost the flow or something on it. It it a big business opportunity issue, or is it a fashion issue that is being focused on?
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Well...!
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On 7/20/2006
Bud
wrote in from
United States
(68.57.nnn.nnn)
I thought the Subway one was even dumber, which is really quite an accomplishment.
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Wes's subway story
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On 7/20/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(64.229.nnn.nnn)
I think that once you get into mass advertising...or in this case mass advertising, you open up cans of worms you never even thought existed.
The guys at Subway want to sell subs to tweens...the guys at Vans want to skate shoes...and skaters, well, they just want to skate without being hassled too much.
With each level you move up, you lose something in the translation...This is why big business frustrates so many people...since most of what they do is about mass market, the vast majority of decisions by big business have such wide ranging affects.
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pr
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On 7/20/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
For sure, the press release is pretty retarted.
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Re: yeah
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On 7/20/2006
Sumdumsurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.107.nnn.nnn)
Steve C. posted:
"That is my point. Really they are not much different than Andrew trying to claim some street cred. He has it. The kid runs a company that employs some of the best street skaters out there. He is out on the street, skating, filming. That is my point.
And I am not angry about any of it. Simply showing that what people get mad about is everywhere. Marketing uses an image(or fashion) to sell their products. Does not matter if it is Alltamont, PRS, Draven(who uses Duane to sell shoes, which is not too punk in my opinion), Subway, or Levi's."
Totally agree, Steve. Especially the part where Andrew already has it. YEP! The boy rips. The release shuold've simply stated his name, the company, and what they're selling. Period. The guy's skate reputation can speak the rest, in volumes.
SK8/SURF 4 LIFE!
Sumdumsurfer
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yeah
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On 7/20/2006
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
I see what you are saying Sumdum, my reference to killing cops just comes from my background in the punk scene. Actually its a reference to a song I was thining of. The quesion is what is punk rock these days? Really not a lot. Bands are punk rock, some. Punk is a moniker that applies to many things, one being an image.
I am not trying to put down the guys and gals at PRS. They seem like they have a good thing going. My point is they use an image(punk rock) to sell their products. That point leading back to my assertion that image is used in marketing by just about every company I can think of. Once again, I am not trying to say that this is bad, just a fact. And I am not putting down any company for doing this. Business is business. And I am not angry. I just think that if you stop and look you will see that PRS uses punk rock imagery to sell its products. And I did not say it was wrong or bad. Sure I guess they have punk rock credibility, but selling the punk image is not that punk in my opinion. And that is what they do there, sell prodcuts laced with punk rock imagery. What is the main selling point on much of their product? Punk bands. Does this help to sell the product? Yes, it does.
That is my point. Really they are not much different than Andrew trying to claim some street cred. He has it. The kid runs a company that employs some of the best street skaters out there. He is out on the street, skating, filming. That is my point.
And I am not angry about any of it. Simply showing that what people get mad about is everywhere. Marketing uses an image(or fashion) to sell their products. Does not matter if it is Alltamont, PRS, Draven(who uses Duane to sell shoes, which is not too punk in my opinion), Subway, or Levi's.
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Re: P.R.S.
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On 7/20/2006
Sumdumsurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.107.nnn.nnn)
Steve C. posted:
"So who else is using "image" to sell their stuff? How about Punk Rock Skateboards? Are these guys really punk? Owning a legitimate company is not punk. Killing cops is punk, not running a business."
Did you even look into it to see what the people at P.R.S. are about? A simple click on the 'Net and you could have come up with this link
http://punkrockskateboards.com/about_prs.htm
A little research can help your point be viewed with credibility because it would have clearly shown the research you did, rather than some scattered angry
emotions that lack hard facts. If you look at their own story, they were doing
this back in 1997 when there was no resurgence of punk music let alone pool
skating and vert focus in skateboarding. From my standpoint it looks like they
were just doing their own thing when none of this stuff was getting the spot
light it is getting now.
The "killing cops is punk" thing? PLEASE. Stereo-typical... HAHAHA! Could you provide us the proof and police reports of this sort of activity taking place? I've been listening to punk music since the late '70s. I'm 44, my sons are in the their mid teens, and we still go to shows. I've yet to see anyone getting killed. I'm not trying to be mean spirited... just shedding light on the other side of what you posted.
=)
SK8/SURF 4 LIFE!
Sumdumsurfer
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Subway and Skaters
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On 7/20/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
The Subway thing is VERY funny here in Summerville. One of the few spots where kids could skate in town was a spot called "the brickyard." It really was an old brick factory but all the kilns were torn down long ago. All that was left was a huge concrete slab with some sloping walls out in the open. It was in a field overgrown with weeds and local skaters more or less made it into a park: wood ramps, permanent rails to grind, big flat open area for street styling.
The only drawback was nearby was a . . . Subway shop. The manager wore out his phone calling the cops every time he saw kids skating in the Brickyard 50 feet away from his parking lot. He actually bough ad space in the local rag demanding the City do something "about the skating menace." He claimed the kids were "bad for business." He said their partying and skating made customers drive on by. Although there was never any trouble at the Yard, he said the "potential for vandalism" concerned him. So a Subway shop was pretty much singlehandedly responsible for eliminating about the only decent skate spot in the Low county.
And now Subway wants to appeal to the "tweeners." I wonder if that fat jerk up the road will get a memo from corporate telling him to put out the red carpet to skaters?
Oh, the Brickyard is gone. Not because of Subway, but the land for the old factory was just too valuable to lay fallow for long. There's a strip mall going in. Bulldozers took out the spot months ago.
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It's as simple as that
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On 7/20/2006 David V.
wrote in from
United States
(24.119.nnn.nnn)
Once again I read the recent posts while sipping my daily cup o' joe and I think I've identified some former high school debate team members on this forum! Sure beats the heck out of the morning paper! Anywho, I've gotta agree with Bud on the clothes issue...not too much thought process happening in my head when it comes to my skating "costume" for the day, or the purchasing of said garments. Jeans...t-shirt...shoes, most of which probably came from Walmart, or Target, or ???. While I don't give a rat's a** if the local crew approves of my skating wardrobe, I will admit, on more than one occasion I have seen, heard or read about a popular skate related item and thought, "Cool...*&%# why didn't I think of that!" At the end of the day, though, it's my skating style that does the talking...even though I'm sure someone out there thinks thats out of fashion too!
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two thoughts...
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On 7/20/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(67.70.nnn.nnn)
#1
I recommend a great dvd called PUNK ATTITUDE.
Highly enjoyable and really nails the punk ethic...at least, from my perspective.
#2
The Subway/Vans Promotion...just a taste....
Subway is extending its reach to tweens by way of a summer tie-in with Vans. The QSR is building out its kids marketing under new management that took charge in early 2005, and brought in Marketing Director Michelle Cordial from the agency side. Her mandate: “Fix kids' meals with no more money,” she laughs. Subway wanted to leverage its inherently better-for-you menu, and draw kids without turning off teens.
“We're at a unique nexus with the focus on childhood obesity. We're lucky we don't have any baggage going in,” Cordial says. “We thought, ‘Kids don't want to eat healthily,’ but they're talking about healthy food in school, so their perspective is different.”
Subway breaks its second Vans promo this month, with a slate of premiums designed to appeal to tweens and younger kids. A May-June effort put Vans-licensed premiums, such as lanyards and key chains, in Kids' Pak meals; those, and value meals, carried game pieces for a sweepstakes awarding a trip for six to Vans' Triple Crown of Surfing competitions in Hawaii in November-December. Kids agency b. little & co., New York, negotiated the Vans deal and handles the promotions.
Vans' sponsorship of board-based sports (surfing, snowboarding, skateboarding) gives Subway entry to those properties — but it's Vans' authenticity that drew Subway. “We were looking for a lifestyle brand, not necessarily…sports properties,” Cordial says.
“[Vans] said Subway is the only QSR they'd consider,” says b. little President Kathy Vosters. Cordial and Vosters watch teen-trend research for other properties that can skew to tweens without turning off the older kids. Premiums are based on retail trends, too. “Kathy says that if it's sold at Claire's, we want it,” Cordial laughs. Vosters adds: “We watch retailers who do well, and take the lead from them.”
Subway wants to protect its high market share among teens, who “found us on their own” with no targeted marketing, Cordial says. “We're the adult choice for kids. We want to be a coming-of-age brand.”
Teen focus groups told Subway they trust the brand because sandwiches are made in front of customers. “Tweens said, ‘Subway doesn't care if I'm a picky eater,’” Cordial says. “The 9-year-olds even argued about whether Subway could be considered fast food.”
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There's timing for you...
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On 7/20/2006
Karl Wagner
wrote in from
United States
(216.191.nnn.nnn)
... about mixing golfing and skateboarding on Michael's blog.
There's a wire story about somebody "tagging" a skatepark and a golf course. Officials are considering closing the skatepark. No word on the fate of the golf course. **sigh**
Click here for link
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Interesting Posts Today
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On 7/20/2006
Bud
wrote in from
United States
(68.57.nnn.nnn)
I gotta hand it to ncdsa, and 'ol Mike here. This is one of the better, more thought-provoking forums around.
It's too bad I don't give a lot of thought to fashion, huh?
I'd like to just confront one topic: Who's to blame for this rash of "conspicuous consumption" in skateboarding? Someone blamed the media, and I would disagree with that. Who I would blame, well, I don't know. Probably noone. But, of all the entities to blame, I'd say the media is the least likely to be at fault.
It's pretty simple stuff, from a marketing standpoint. There are a lot of pro skaters that kids look up to. Pros skate well, they have fairly colorful lifestyles, they get to travel around and skate... they basically live every kid's ultimate dream-reality. So, naturally, kids want to be like them- kids being impressionable, of course. It's not the hardest sell on the planet, that's fersure. And, of course, none of this is unique to skateboarding, as Steve C pointed out so well. Baseball, basketball... even movie stars. Anyone that someone looks up to, and has a fan or two, or- even better- a zillion, is a marketer's dream come true.
The media really doesn't do much, except maybe give these guys- pro whoevers- coverage. Maybe it's a little overhyped, maybe it's well-deserved... it all depends on the role model in question, I guess. Media is also an advertising medium; it gives the marketers a voice, to communicate with the market. So, the media's role is really sort of passive in all of this. Reletively speaking, at least. Now, I am talking about actual "media", here. Magazines, the web, books, newspapers, etc. If you're talking "media" as in, paid advertising... well, that's another story. Advertising exists exclusively to sell stuff- that's what it's there to do. So, of course, that is obviously to blame. But, that's not "unbiased" media. That's "totally whorish and completely biased" advertising. Big difference, there.
Basically, the whole idea is, for the marketer/manufacturer/spokesperson to try to be cool, and for the kids to think they're cool, and want to buy into whatever they're selling. It's not rocket science. If you're somebody special, you can probably sell something to someone. That's "marketing" in it's purest form.
I might point out here that, for the most part, the way hardgoods and softgoods are marketed is pretty similar. I don't see a huge gulf between a pro model deck, and a pro model truck, or a pro model wheel, bearing... or, tee shirt, shoe, or whatever. Energy drinks, even. Pros sell stuff. Always have, always will. That's largely what defines a "pro" in the first place, isn't it? The ability to sell stuff....? Pros that don't sell stuff being the first to wash out of the industry, of course...
So, are marketers to blame for all of this? For selling their wares effectively?Or, are kids to blame, for being gullible enough to buy into it? Or- here's one- is our culture, that holds the almighty dollar up as the end-all and be-all of the measure of the true value of life, the identity to blame in all of this?
Let's face facts: Not all kids can skate, or skate well. But, they want to be skaters. So, they spend their loot dressing the part. Can they really be blamed for realistically assessing their capabilities? Maybe they like the "skate culture", but don't like skating. Can I relate to it? No. But, does it make some logical sense? Sure.
Personally, I don't give two rat's asses about any of this. I skate, and I wear clothes. I buy whatever works, and doesn't infringe too much on my skateboard or sports car buying habits. I'll buy an ice cold Coke and a pack of cloves long before I'll buy a new pair of jeans. When I do buy clothes, I buy the first thing that I see that fits me well, as I hate shopping to the Nth degree, so, I try to make it as quick and painless as possible. That's my choice, and whatever other people choose to do is just whatever. Some people love shopping. Cool; buy something for me while you're at it, okay?
I really just don't care either way, I guess. If it's not actual skateboarding, then, it doesn't occupy too much of my precious little brain space. It's as simple as that.
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vans and subway
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On 7/19/2006 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.139.nnn.nnn)
http://promomagazine.com/mag/marketing_subway_freshens_kids/
i was eating at subway yesterday....
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Steve C - 2
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On 7/19/2006 Guto Jimenez
wrote in from
Brazil
(200.165.nnn.nnn)
Oh, I forgot to say that I agree with you when you say that punk rock's a label these days, just as "hardcore skater". It's just another shortcut to take a big piece of the skateboarding pie.
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Steve C
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On 7/19/2006 Guto Jimenez
wrote in from
Brazil
(200.165.nnn.nnn)
You got me wrong, Steve. I didn't mean that Andrew didn't have the right to put out his company - as you pointed out, we're in a capitalist world. What bothered me was all the marketing babble that mixed some of the anarchist ideals with the possibility of setting a dress code to skaters. It's nonsensical to say the least, don't you agree? Sure Andrew deserves all credit for his skateboarding - which, I repeat, is amazing -, but as far as Altamont goes, well, we'll have to wait a couple of years to see if he's selling it to a big corp if things work out too fine. Who told you I don't criticize Bob for some of his actions?! Believe me I do, but you just couldn't know about it. You don't know me, so I'll briefly introduce myself: I'm an old timer involved with Brazilian skateboarding. I was the first in the country to compete in Munster in 1987, the same year I began taking pictures for mags, as I was already writing for mags since 1984. I occasionally produce and announce skate-related radio shows, and I also announce contests - some of which were the Latin American X-games. I'd already helped in the foundation of the most relevant associations since 1988, when the very first one of those were founded. To put it short, I'm a skateboard militant who's kind of seeing the same mistake being done again. The mistake of letting corporations rule as the main cash sources in the sport. We didn't have a choice back in the 70s but to go underground - and then street skating was generated. I see core skateboarding as the only way out of the growing corporate domination of our lifestyle. I guess this is the main point here: skateboarding is a lifestyle, not a fashion style, period. I can only be sorry for all the fashion victims out there.
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one thing
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On 7/19/2006
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
My point with all this is not I think that this is cool, right, ect. I am just saying that money rules the world, and people like to make it. It may not be what we all want, it is just the way it is. I ain't trying to sway anyone to agree or disagree. I personally don't care one way or the other. People do what they want, think and say what they want. Most people don't care too much what others think, especially if they are turning a profit.
This is no different than a lot of sports stars with one major thing. Guys like Jordan and Kobe endorse other peoples products. At least Andrew ain't just endorsing the big mac like some other stars(Hawk). Why is it that we are not so critical of Bob Burnquist endorsing Milk? These guys are being the spokepeople for all kinds of s#@!. Ever watch the x-games? All those vert guys drink Sobe and Mt Dew after their runs. At least this guy is running his own company instead of endorsing corporate America.
Let's face it, skating is huge and their is a lot of money being made off stuff that is not skateboarding. Is that so wrong? Punk is dead. The last photos of Duane I saw he has new front teeth. Are false teeth punk?
So who else is using "image" to sell their stuff? How about Punk Rock Skateboards? Are these guys really punk? Owning a legitimate company is not punk. Killing cops is punk, not running a business.
Feel free to spout of whatever euphamisms you see fit. I say let them make their money. If people want to buy it, sell it to them. You can choose to not be a part of it, but does your opinion make it wrong for them to do?
And when did we need the skate media most? What does that mean?
So a couple other questions for you guys. Do you wear clothes? Or do you wear a burlap sack? So you have no sense of fashion? Clothes are bad somehow?
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FASHION SUCKS!
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On 7/19/2006 Guto Jimenez
wrote in from
Brazil
(200.165.nnn.nnn)
I think we must all keep in our minds what skateboarding wear is all about: function BEFORE fashion - never the other way around. Altamont? With all due respect to Andrew Reynolds for his amazing skating, it seems to me that his RP's mixing some things up, as far as his press release is concerned. Carefully DIY-alike clothing is opposite to everything that punk stood for. Sure he's gonna make lots of $$ with his brand, it seems perfect for the pop-punks, Simple Plan fans out there. After all, why bothering to understand what rebellion and anarchy really are when you can buy them in the nearest trendy skate shop? As for all the Nike jazz, I wonder which direction they'd head to if ESPN + corporate media decided that yoyos are the next big thing. They'd probably have yoyo shoes & wear and support a pro yoyo team in the same way they're doing with skateboarding. "Money talks, bulls#@! walks" is their motto, they couldn't care less about the soul of any sports around. I don't care if there are core golfers or fishermen - I'm a skateboarder with a very good memory. They weren't down when we needed them most, so I'll use my most powerful tool to fight them back: my freedom of choice as a consumer. I wished someone could explain me how the media can be guilty for the current status of corporate skateboarding. I don't think it's fair to put tws and CW in the same bag.
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re:Dress code
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On 7/19/2006 chris olden
wrote in from
(75.22.nnn.nnn)
hey Steve,
I'll bet I'm not their "demographic target".
Of course I've heard of Reynolds...I'm not familiar
with his skating though. I just thought he was some
guy that was in Tony Hawk pro-skater 4.
You're probably right; they will make money hand over fist.
(So did Vision)
My problem with "Altamont"(which is an obvious ploy to shock
the parents of their potential buyers...as well as to appear
street tough) is their marketing is laughable. The pseudo-
intellectual marketing speak reads like the high-school level
english hype that it is. Heck, why didn't they call their
company "Manson"? "Fashion to kill for!"
Again, this leads right back to my first post; "when a movement/
subculture becomes a fashion statement it's dead."
They are using skateboarding as a marketing tool(not like that
hasn't been done before. Right, Nike?) to sell IMAGE and not for
the betterment of skateboarding.
I see it as parasitic.
chris olden
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rebellion packaged
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On 7/19/2006
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
Please don't tell me the next phrase that is going to be uttered regarding the marketing is "mall boarding" We seem to be dancing all around those words, they are lurking right around the corner. I had a big write-up ready, but it just was not right. I need to sit back and look at the real direction of the comments.
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Well...
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On 7/19/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
Actually Andrew is a huge name and more than likely his company will make tons of money. It may sound stupid to you, but then again you are not the target market. I respect your opinion but I think you are pretty out of touch with the mainstream market. I guess that is OK but I bet Altamont is super successful, simply based on who is behind it. Why do you think Baker has been on top for so long? Because the owners are stupid? On the contrary, it is a combination of good business sense and one of the best teams in skateboarding today. 15 minutes, the guy has been pro for like 15 years.
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Vision clothing redux
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On 7/19/2006 chris olden
wrote in from
(75.18.nnn.nnn)
hey Steve,
I have no problem with people finding ways to make money.
That's what capitalism and marketing is all about.
However, I find the way they are approaching it laughable.
It's like the old "Ron Co." ads from the 70's...
"Now you too can be cool!!! Buy our skate uniforms at the mall
and show everyone how rad you are!!!"
Go watch the "Gator" dvd where they talk about going to the
Vision warehouse and what the skater's thoughts were when
they saw it.
I think that section of the dvd is pretty interesting.
Altamont beret's and fanny packs are next!!
Don't forget the over-sized logos on your "one of a kind"
gems!
"Altamont Apparel is created by and for those whose sense of uniqueness, personal style and swagger is evident in everything- whether it be skateboarding, art, music or dress. "
You may not skate, but you can look like you do!
Running contrary to the Mountain Dew ad campaign of a few years ago;
"Image is EVERYTHING."
"Arguably the biggest influencer in modern street skateboarding today,
Andrew Reynolds..."
"influencer"? Who dreamed up that adjective?
Howabout a little Enlgish 1a before you write up your next press release?
Hear that alarm?
Your 15 minutes is up Mr.Reynolds.
I hope we can find altamont clothes in the thrift shops in a few years
and be embarassed about them the same way people are embarassed to admit
they wore Vision stuff back in the 80's.
chris olden
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