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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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board height and rollin'
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On 1/23/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Munchh the height of a board that is used solely for pumping long distances is less of an issue than that of a board the is used for pushing or for 'hybrid' - some pump, some push.
I too was very concerned about deck height when I first got into LDP. I knew that with wheels in the 76mm range that are sweet for rolling over cracks and peagravel, and loosey goosey trucks that allow really easy turning plus the back-from-the-nose truck mounting position it would be riser city. However to my surprise the Carver CX's don't actually need as much riser as a R2's which was a nice bonus for me when I moved my LDP into the realm of the Carvers. As well once I got into pure LDP with no intermittant pushing phases, the deck height issue just kind of disappeared.
Sure I still have my lowrider for when I feel like a alternate leg pushing skate sesh or my five foot cruiser with its 180 R's and gummies for just going for a mellow cruise with the dog. But for all out LDP it is great to have a board set up with trucks and wheels specific to that sport. Afterall, with the right gear a sport can be just that much more enjoyable.
Keep experimenting with what works for you for LDP and when you find that magical combination just leave everything as is for a while and enjoy rollin'!
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rolin elbows?
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On 1/23/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.137.nnn.nnn)
I'm asuming its the 'rollin elbows' that i've seen in your vids, i did have a quick go at this, but by this time my foot wouldn't have it anymore, so i rolled home.
I think i'm goin to set up one of my flat decks, as i was getting on pretty well with my 30", although i was using 150's and they were set right on the nose, so a little adjustment might be needed. I've realised that the set ups must be quite high as with the big wheels you are using, Randals being pretty high compared to normal hanger trucks, i've never needed anymore than a shockpad under the Randals using 70mm's and always needed 1/2" or more for normal trucks, this is another reason i set up on the nose and why alot of my decks are quite narrow!
Gonna keep at it.
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concave and rolling into the LDP
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On 1/23/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Yes I agree that hard concave can be a pain in the foot! But I find some subtle concave very useful for providing a soft edge to press against during the pumping motion. I have never really enjoyed a flat longboard though, interestingly, I've found that for slalom a flat deck seems to be just fine.
I really agree with James about the 'roll' that the pump settles into once the acceleration phase is complete and the body settles in to the rhythm of pumping for the long haul. It is a pleasant feeling this roll and seems to be so smooth, nothing jarring or jerky about it. Having the arms move in a sort of modified joggers arm swing just makes sense from the point of view of conservation of energy or, put another way, efficiency of motion.
James, it seems that peeps often are puzzled and even a bit uncomfortable when they view a new movement in sport. Gradually, when it becomes more common place, they think nothing of it anymore. Take, for example, the 'scrubbing the ice' in curling, or the 'pitch' in cricket.... very strange motions if you have never seen them before. As more of us take up LDP on skateboards, skaters specifically and the public generally will get used to us and won't give the arm swing or rolling technique a second glance.
Lucky you that are getting out there on your boards. The record setting winter of rains contiues up here. So far, I have managed to sneak in two skates outdoors in seven weeks!
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short distance cramp
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On 1/23/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
Well i wont lie, i hadn't been doing it very far, 1/2 mile mabie, but i think its alot to do with my fitness, i've been sitting around for 3 months, so it to be expected i spose!
I have set up one of my favorite 36" cruisers, this is flat, with 150mm fibrelites, wedged up, its WB is probly 26/28". I used to pump this with my Tracker 219's on either end both wedged, which was alot of fun, pretty bouncy board.
So i think i will put some 65mm noskoolz on the short deck and put the flashbacks on the 36" deck, might make some diffrence?
Eddie, has the sector 9 got a tail, if so its the same as my mates, he has it set up just like you 180 RII's, shogo kubo wheels and he runs the trucks so loose they rattle! He rides with his feet just inside the trucks, but then he skates very diffrent to me so, do what you feel is best, i've never found i ride any of my friends decks the same way they do, but Peters saying about foot over the truck, made a big diffrence for me, so try it all till your happy?
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flexy S9 deck
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On 1/22/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Eddie, that should be a nice little setup, I'd probably drill 2 new sets of truck holes, putting the rear as far back as possible and the front back an inch or more. Personally I like extra leverage being able to stand a little over each truck on a deck that short. Eventually may want to try Randal 150 hangars too! Nice price!
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cramps & shadow boxing
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On 1/22/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Concave is excellent in shorter sprints, but that lip at the deck's edge can kill your feet after a few miles, it raises your toes and flattens out the arch. Its obvious you've actually pumped some long distance Munchh, because most short, casual pump+push sessions would never create that pain...the occasional pushes give your arch a serious breather. So far for skumping, yes, the flat decks work best. Although inspired by one of Stryker's speedboard designs, I'm currently building a deck that has three flat surfaces creating a smoother concave transition. It provides pumping leverage but eradicates that lip!
Once you work up your endurance, a longer wheelbase will pay off on the long rides. The short board will be great for a few miles, but you would probably move to 25"+ wheelbase later as your "stride" gets longer.
Also, hard, swinging slalom pumps are a must for acceleration, but in skumping there's a unique, rolling, "shadow boxing" pump that works more efficiently over distance. Many people comment, question or laugh out loud about this style. I've even seen it referred on other forums as "goofy" or "jerky" ;-) But with every new style comes a load of detractors -- and those who are more open and inquisitive. In fact just yesterday at cyber, Michael Dong was giving his observations on efficiency of my shadow boxing pump for distances, from watching the skumping vids -- that it seemed to maintain energy over the long haul by smoothing out the typical slalom pump edges. I hadn't given it much thought, I've just slapped on the mp3 and followed what motions work for a 'maintenance' pump.
Annnyway, all hepped up and yakkin', because FINALLY got out today for a short 6-mile skump, 1st time in over a month! Stoked!!!
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got me a flexy - foot position
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On 1/22/2006 eddie
wrote in from
United States
(64.132.nnn.nnn)
i picked up a used complete sector nine 33in flexy for $20. threw some randall 180's on it and now it finaly turns. cant figure out where my foot position should be. im not used to riding a board where the front truck is mounted at the tip. should i be standing more towards the middle where it bounces more, or towards the edges of the board?
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FOOOOT CRAAAMP!
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On 1/21/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Wow, now i know what its all about,
that hurts,
i dont know if its the concave on the deck or the bushings too hard, i've changed them to some 94 duro, but they dont feel right, think they are more for freestyle trucks, might just put the funny hourglass ones back in,
but oooow,
how do you do what you lot do for as long as you do it, is this why you tend to have flat decks??
Yeah Peters, i want one just like that, in my back garden, sweet.
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sticky 'thane
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On 1/20/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Airin, congrats you've got the giant roll-over-everything sticky gummy wheels!! 76a/72a is great for almost any condition trail, and I'd swear that by using the big soft duros, foot and arch pain is seriously reduced by less conduction of asphalt bumps and rattles going directly to your feet.
On another note! - I got to preview the NEW ZigZag 'thane at last Saturdays cyber session, its Wicked, like a bouncy, sticky super-ball. I'll have to get a set for slalom, but currently I'm planning to shred the hell out of all my Avalons and Hot Spots.
Who knows, might even get to ride a trail this weekend?! And Munchh that Cayman snake is now my desktop wallpaper ;-)
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yummmmmm Avilas!
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On 1/19/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Yummmy Avilas, gotta love 'em for pumping ..... add a dash of Carver CX for more flavour!
Oh those bad boys are the answer to my pea-gravel woes. They roll over everything and with 72a in the back and 76a in the front its one smooooooooth ride!
Try 'em if you haven't already.
I'm getting closer and closer to the perfect pumping machine! Yessssssss!
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more snakes
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On 1/19/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
This one is in the Cayman islands, like it.
Click here for link
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abec11 bushings
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On 1/19/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
yeah since Chaput hasn't made 'em yet, I'm taking a hole saw to my flat-spotted NoSkools to make some sweet bushings soon!!
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Springy back trucks
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On 1/19/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Eric, I kind of like the idea, mentioned awhile back, I think by James, something along the lines of making a larger bushing.(referring to Chris Chaput's idea) I'm pretty curious how it would effect rebound in the DP trucks. I think I'll get a Dremel going on one of my trucks, and then CNC carve some oversize conical bushings out of an old Gumball. I think 1 1/16" or1 1/8", should do. Since the double pivot trucks have so many adjustment characteristics, and are already super turny, I think they might be able to afford the larger bushings, without sacrificing turning radius. Single Pivot trucks need the small ones to make the turning easier. However, I think its just another theory that needs to be tried!
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"Four Wheels Down" by Dan Gesmer
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On 1/18/2006
silversurfer
wrote in from
United States
(71.192.nnn.nnn)
James those are some AWESOME looking snake runs! I'd love to get a chance to skate those, either now or when I'm a senior skater!
Hey anyone who has not seen Dan Gesmer's video Four Wheels Down should check it out. It's got some amazing pumping and general skateboarding. Really amazing pumping skill.
http://www.ncdsa.com/four_wheels_down.mov
It also got me thinking about an idea that James mentioned elsewhere.
The idea of using a Seismic back truck with a really turny/pumpable front truck. I'm thinking the seismic might add some power to the pump by increasing rebound, energy and return to center. James if you could comment on
your experience and ideas for the future using this set up I'd be grateful.
And has anyone else tried anything like that set up or any other interesting combinations that might be good for pumping?
I'd like to hear more details, recommendations and discussion of pumping and LDP gear. If anyone has any ideas on decks, trucks/bushings/springs, wheels and/or bearings that would be ideal or close to ideal for pumping I'd love to hear about them. Thanks for all the info guys, this is a very informative forum!
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snake runz
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On 1/18/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
More snake run parks will serve us all well, especially 30 years from now when we're seniors and need parks we can still pump around ;-) Did some googling for snake run parks, here's a few tasty bites!
Burien, south of Seattle
Burnside
KONA
Poway
Australia
Al, great ideas - especially "...a 1st class medical center at the bottom..."!!!
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More than 'pipe dreams'... unless, of course, your talkin' .. half pipes!
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On 1/18/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Munchh,
Everything is possible, and really, I can't imagine something like this..not being made one day! However, for these things to happen, the sport needs to evolve more and more to the longboarding/pumping scene. I think big sponsers for parks like this would only be on board if it was a family orientated park, as is skiing and even golf. If more adults started to longboard, there would also be more money in it! Just think of what skiing would be without the adults!....No $$..just like skating! So, with more inclusion of women and young children, as well as some seniors, into the sport of longboarding/pumping/slalom, there would follow money and new parks like the ones we're discribing. I only hope that with the new trucks,wheels and decks being developed these new riders might be more attracted. Then skateboarding might arrive at the place where it should be...as the best and most popular of the "mainstream" sports!
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park pleasure
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On 1/17/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(86.132.nnn.nnn)
Hey Al,
i want tickets to your park.......cool vision dood.
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Paved Wave park
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On 1/17/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
James,
Everything about the old Paved Wave park in Florida looks totally cool! I would only like to see it about 5 to 10 times as large, maybe with 3 or 4 other runs in different directions...more bowls, transition pump areas, a series of wave-like ditchs which get progressively deeper and a good rope tow at the bottom. Of course the rope tow would blast up the hill with bungee cord handles through a series of concrete moguls, just so as not to waste any fun! Oh yeah, and a skate lodge could be at the top, with a pool and jacuzzi, just like they have up at Squaw Valley ski resort! Throw in a few dozen complimentary BBQ's, an industrial ice maker for the beers, and possibly a 1st class medical center at the bottom...and I think it's ready to go! :) Oh, one last thing...someone up in Seattle needs to convert Bill Gates to the pumping/skumping/longboarding scene....so he can pay the bill! Hint: Trap races in front of his house with signs saying "free lessons for all ages" ...might do the trick!
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'bearing' - NOT - should read "bushing"
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On 1/17/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
...sheeesh, where's the 'edit' button on this forum!
that should read 'bushing' not bearing....d'oh
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bearing tarrrrrr
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On 1/17/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
Yeah James, I'm not too fussed about the squeaking anymore myself. Some folks have said that a little wd40 sprayed into the pivot cup can quiet things down - a tip for those of you who are still after a noiseless ride. All in all, I think no matter what you use, even powder, it will eventually turn into a black slop....and isn't that one of the reasons we abandoned bike maintenance way back in the day when we rode on two wheels?!
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squeakin
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On 1/17/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
E - I've been trying silicon grease as well, mixes with bearing dirt/gunk and makes a nice black tarrrrr... I might try powder, will let u know! Usually I don't notice because the MP3 is on ;-)
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Dream Pumpin' Parks
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On 1/16/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Al, Florida's Paved Wave long-ago skatepark sounds kinda like your conversation!!? Wouldn't it be a trip if golf-course skateparks also came full circle, focused on smooth transitions, endless pumping... Pls keep in touch with that guy!
Right in my backyard is Grindline's Orcas Island skatepark, 30,000 sq. ft.! Haven't been for fear I'd be packing up the family and relocating permanently. The snake runs are supposed to be long, winding and pumpilicious. Know other parks that are pump-centric?!
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skate squeaks
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On 1/16/2006
Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(66.183.nnn.nnn)
James thanks for your encouraging words and the inspiration of you and your gang running cones and the Trap in spite of these wet winter days.
When it comes to squeaky skates...it seems to be in part the bushings but also often the pivot cup. In the past I have used silicone grease, the same type used with scuba equipment, to hush up my restless bushings and pivot cup. Though effective, the grease does eventually cause grit to collect and can be a bit of a dirty mess after a while.
Recently with so much board tweaking, the frequent disassembling and resassembling of boards has caused me to forgo my usual truck-lubing routine and instead I just started to accept the squeak of the board as I traveled along.
The Carver CX's take the cake for squeaking....stock bushings that is. Perhaps it is the relatively tall bushings or the deep pivot on the front truck.
Anyways, if you are ever skating up my way, you'll know its me coming up behind you....'squeak', 'squawk', 'sqwack', 'squeak'.....
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Trappin, CXs and stuff
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On 1/16/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Erin you've *already* got bragging rights, esp. you've averaged Trap over multiple runs - that time is solid! Good on ya! Hope you can make it down here some weekend, rain or shine we should have somethin' going on, else we'll make it happen.
Nice to hear your CarverCX impressions as well - you said... "still have to work on generating fast accelerations ... for the Trap but for longer continuous pumping these trucks are delightful." Absolutely, I think the CX's are perfect for skumping/distances. I'm currently sold on the narrower Split-Fire or 85mm Tracker for pumping the sprint/Trap and I've even tried these on the trail, but on long rides I'm still wary of busting a kingpin with Randal-esque reversed pin architecture (though the split axle might mitigate that??) and also CX's pump being so incredibly smooth, I still haven't broken a front kingpin for what must be 500++ miles -- just broke two REAR kingpins for a change.
Hey Munchh - I think sometimes that bushing squeak comes from cold weather as well. I started testing out Stims on my longboards after seeing some of Erin's rigs and though the performance is amazing as expected, they squeak like crazy too! I'm hoping squeaks shut up as things warm up (there's a theory anyway.) I'll mail you about bushings, its wild that the weather dried up for us all this weekend -- across the globe apparently!
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Cyber Pumpology
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On 1/16/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(24.18.nnn.nnn)
Saturdays garage cyber was a blast. Corey and Jackman were just tenths apart, and Strykers gonna kick my butt next time we get out ;-) Gareth casually jumped in later and just SMOKED -- his fast, smooth precision reminded me to *breathe* again, he makes it look effortless! Even a few of the kids were there in the early morning, stoked to ride - gasp - FLATland, of all things!! They were either poppin' ollies or slicing cones, Darren's amazing form and his racing times keep me in check!
Michael Dong stopped by with the timer and gave us some great tips on our starts, etc. and here's a few of the things he reminded us, most of which apply to the Trap as well (thanks MD!!)
- post your times, it keeps you conscious of your goals and progress
- swing your arms faster than you think you should, your body catches up
- stay low, wide and powerful on starts, slowly raise and narrow as you go
- there is no 1st cone! last push should be just before, step *over* 1st cone
- cyber WILL improve your push starts, period. that comes in handy later!
I'm going to put (super tiny) paint-dots on the current course. One great thing about Cyber/Trap is that constant course, having a consistent measuring stick on your progress.
I just hope we can get outside for a change in the coming weekends!! Next time maybe we'll take pics with t-shirts and shorts under bright flourescent garage lights so it will look like we're outdoors?!
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How to Pump