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| Long Distance Pumping (LDP) (1492 Posts)
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racing and riding
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On 5/2/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Al, thanks for the dinero! Just to put this 'racing' into perspective, IMO the keyword on the Cyber page is at top of the chart - "Personal" best. That table reflects just a handful of the people who are capable of sub-9 second times-- when an actual Cyber race is held somewhere in the world, there are other names with FAST times that don't appear up on NCDSA. I think where I rank on that table really matters to just a few people who know me, and of course - me. I've always treated that page, and all my GPS-logged rides with increasingly more efficient commuting times, simply as a way to gauge *personal* improvement in pump technique and gear, and not much else. Besides, once you're posting Cyber in the top 20, then you'd better be able to back that up in person, but other than that the competition is "local" - I just keep track of people I know that are in my general "league" and try to figure out what it is they're doing and improve incrementally. Now, watching someone like Dong?! That just messes with your mind!! So as for breaking the results down into leagues or levels, well, I'd just say we need a data pool of about 100-200 people actually posting times before we even worry about that. Cyber's been around for quite a while and the total online posts are just under 100.
The real reason I ride distance is the addictive rush, and discoveries that come with carving endless turns. The only reasons I see 'racing' come into the picture are 1. to have a measurable way to gauge improvement 2. to give the sport more positive visibility in public and encourage participation, and 3. gives people who might otherwise not meet, an excuse other than just "hangin out" to get out and ride, (then go hit a brewery afterward.)
My personal hope in this 'racing' gig are to see a huge increase in people that come out to just ride across the city recreationally, demonstrating that the modern day skateboard is on par as a commuting vehicle just as much or moreso than blades, unicycles, bikes, etc. the half-marathon is extremely "accessible" in this regard. And secondly, to see the fast kid that comes to the next flatland 13- miler and does it in well under an hour...or 26-er in well under 2 hours.... that wouldn't discourage, it just makes me want to know HOW!!
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Racing..etc...
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On 5/2/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
OK...I'll give my 2 cents in on the 1 mile pump/ push/skump race. The first is, that, as with all the races, I think it is a great idea, and a very normal distance to race. Only a quick comparison with any other velocity orientated sport will tell that this is a logical choice for a race. The only problem I have is that I think riders might hold out due to the percieved differences between what we might call 'professional'level racing, and 'beginner' racing. The truth is, that with all these races, we are competing against the best in the world in these areas, because the feild of pump racers is, at present, not that large, probably under 100-200, or so. And for this reason it is a bit humiliating for the less practiced, or those who are more recreationally minded, to post their times next to those who pump miles everyday, and are currently breaking world records( in one way or another) on almost a monthly basis. It can easily be seen how it is difficult to compete on such a level..that is , for the average rider. Now, this is not to take away from anything or anybody, its just a consideration that should be looked at, so as to help the races become more popular and acceptable to all catagories of rider..the beginner as well as the pro's.
To solve this problem, I would suggest 2 or 3 levels of competitions. The most professional level would be the first, and might be for those who can pump the trap in under 8.5 seconds, the mile in less than 5 mins.,The 200meters in 40 secs or lower...etc..The 2nd level would be for recreational racers who might want to compete, but not on the highest level. These would be for racers who can race trap within 8.5 and 10 seconds, the mile in 5-7 mins. and the 200 meters in 40 to 48 seconds. (I find myself in this second category...but would like to get to the 1st level at some time when I can devote more time to racing!) The 3rd level would be for real beginners...anyone who races trap at over 10secs. for instance.
Anyway, I think with different classifications the races might be enjoyed by a wider range of rider, and thus make the races more likely to succeed and develope over the long run. The racers in the middle or lower classifications can always look to those racers on the higher level for inspiration and more advanced riding techniques and styles, just like it's done in almost all other sports..ie. tennis, cycling, skiing etc...
Ok..thats my 2 cents...or 2 peso's.. if your living here, like me, in the Dominican Republic!
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cx bushings, the Mile
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On 5/1/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Looks like Melanie at Daddiesboardshop has us covered on the CX bushings! When I'm out of those, usually a white Khiro barrel+cone or barrel+barrel combo works great as well.
Thx for the cyber Mile impressions derek! -- if people send in some times I'll get a page going!! Munchh you have a good point it would seem simple to add the Mile to the Trap page, only its a little weird because if you notice Michael Dong is the only one so far to post times on two separate distances, the 44-foot and 176-foot. If you open the Trap page, his fastest MPH (from 44') shows, but the distance column shows the last distance he ran (176') so its a wee confusing. It's possible to click on his history and see which time is associated with which distance, however. Anyway Adam and I discussed it briefly last week and I decided to "test out" the interest level on the Mile first, then IF we actually get enough people sending in data we can move it to something like this.
A lot of buzz about the Trap even on the 'fish, but few people posting times... I spammed Steve in AZ last week and he said he'll be posting HIS time, so keep an eye out! ;-)
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bushings
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On 5/1/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
yeah- i had that same problem. and jp is CONNECTED. if he can't get an answer, there probably isn't one...
i just did a little research, and i *think* those bushings are called thunder bushings? it's the closest thing i can find. i ordered a bunch of different types to test out, because everything else is getting chewed up pretty good after a couple rides.
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silent carver
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On 5/1/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.158.nnn.nnn)
the marketing disaster is that it is impossible to get through to Carver's email, to ask them any direct questions? I just kept getting auto responses, thank god for JP, thats all i can say.
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carver stock bushings
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On 5/1/2006
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey- does anyone know the name of the bushings that come with the carver cx trucks? all i know is that they are red, kinda see through, and they last almost twice as long as anything else i've tried. it's a marketing disaster not to have their name on their product- i would buy a crate of those things if only i could only find out what they were...
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go it dude!
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On 4/30/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
right on munchh!
yeah- the push alternative opens it up a bit- i like that! i can't wait to hear how it goes, and any feedback you have on this. have a great ride.
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specs....
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On 4/30/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.158.nnn.nnn)
I've just reread the specs, i didn't realise James had said 'pushing, pumping or both'!
I can get straight to it in that case, i dont think i can pump up that hill yet, but i can push it.
Cool, i'm getting my tools out, its 23:40, the girls are all crashed after the party (and Nate of corse) so i'm gonna cover the front room in parts, if this rain is gone at any point tomorow, i'll get 2 combined runs in for sure, my miler is right outside my house!
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records........
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On 4/30/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.158.nnn.nnn)
Forgot to say, i think your right about doing 2 runs within a certain time of each other, its what is done with land speed records and stuff like that, i think this is very fare, the elements are not something that we can control so its just a good idea.
Theres no reason to think that it couldn't be enough time to recover and doing the uphill 1st is a cert.
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The miler
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On 4/30/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.158.nnn.nnn)
Nice one Derek,
sounds like you gave it a real go. I haven't had a chance to try the reverse yet, but tomorow (monday) is a bank holiday, so an extra day off work. This morning it was wet and it rained till midday, the monthly shop needed doing and my god daughter got engaged so big family doo.
I need to try a new setup for this, i'm toying with a few things, i was hoping that the new fish would be up to it, but alas i dont think i am!!
The 36" that i've been talking about, with the CX at the front and highly de-wedged downhill Randal (160mm), it'll be the trusty 70mm flashbacks aswell.
I think i might end up with narrower trucks though, but thats for later, will let you know what happens??
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cyber mile specs test
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On 4/30/2006
derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
i tried out the cyber mile according to james' specs there. good stuff!
i had a gps watch that measured the distance out, so that made it pretty easy to mark out the course. it also keeps track of elevation gains and losses, so you can tell if you were really carving it up, or just going "slightly downhill..."
i warmed up for about 50 minutes, first with my libtech with a 24 inch wheelbase, carver cx trucks and avilla wheels. When that felt comfortable, i went back and got my insect board with a 31 inch wheelbase, the carver cxs and some softer avillas.
i got up to full speed about 1/8 mile before the start line, and just maintained that across the start and held on for as long as i could. the direction i went for the first mile was a slight incline, which i figured would be beneficial later on when i was exhausted on the way back. there was also a slight wind coming in from the side, which sometimes was helpful, and sometimes a bit of a challenge. on a relatively flat course, the wind seems to be the greatest variable, which makes the 2- direction thing all the more accurate.
my body was pretty spent on the way back, and i had a bit of trouble with maintaining focus. it was an all out sprint, and i'm used to just trying to get into a groove- so this was definitely a different feel. and then, as i neared the finish, i had an equipment malfunction with 1/10th of a mile to go. aw rats. i went back and did the same stretch later though. I think that's one area where the rules might need to be better defined. can i just go back and run the course backwards on another day? if the winds shift, that seems a little unfair. or maybe that's just one of those things... i dunno.
the one modification i would make is this: set parameters around the amount of time allowable between the finish of the first mile and the start of the second.
well- that's my take on the cyber mile. it's definitely a challenge, and it's definitely a good little puzzle to figure out. i dig it!
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the munchh mile
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On 4/30/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey munchh-
did you get a chance to do your reverse loop there? hope the hill was good to ya!
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'The mile'
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On 4/29/2006
Munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(81.158.nnn.nnn)
could the mile not be added to 'the trap', a simple solution.
As long as your running in both directions, i've only ever riden my mile loop one way, as there is quite a slope right at the end, gonna see if i can get up it today, mabie i'll take the vid camera along?
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cyber kilometer
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On 4/28/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
erin- you're just gonna have to come down to the states and ride the burke gilman with me and james! and i don't think the cyber mile is only for the speediest folks out there. it's a great way to measure your progress, with one of the first major steps being that you can even pump a mile at all. more than anything else, it's a way to measure your efficiency.
another interesting angle on this topic would be to post our top speeds generated on a flatland pump. kinda similar to the trap i guess...
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1 Adam 12 - COPY? :P
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On 4/28/2006
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.95.nnn.nnn)
I saw that email but I thought it was spam.
Please resend! And thanks bro. It looked inviting.
Cheers mate
cYa
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Metric Conversion
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On 4/28/2006
lonerider
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
A mile is roughly 1,609 meters. Outdoor running tracks in the States tend to be 400m long, so it's 4 laps = 1600m for the mile. A "metric mile" is also sometimes used (1500m).
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the 'cyber kilometre'
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On 4/28/2006 Erin
wrote in from
Canada
(142.22.nnn.nnn)
Its probably pretty early days for me to consider setting any speed records with my new found love of LDP being still pretty 'new found'. Nevertheless there was this little voice that kept chattering to me about the cyber mile. So I got to thinking of where a good spot would be should I wish to dabble in this little challenge. And then I got to thinking how I would measure such a distance. You see most measuring devices up here, such as the bike computer mounted on my touring 29 inch wheel unicycle, are in kilometres. And no, this 'puter does not have the option of switching over to miles.
Then there are some older cars that still register in miles but that isn't very practical when one is thinking of setting this course up on a local bike path.
So, how about the option of a 'cyber kilometre'?
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Paging Chris Yandall
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On 4/27/2006
Adam
wrote in from
United States
(64.81.nnn.nnn)
Chris Yandall, Are my emails of the last week re X-Trux reaching you?
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backward vs. switch pump
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On 4/27/2006 peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
Backward pump means the feet stay in the same orientation, goofy OR standard, but the toes of the feet point toward the back of the board. Its one cool way to mix things up and change muscles. I've done it from time to time on slower grooves, its kinda scary as Al says to be (literally) hauling butt if you're moving really fast.
Switch pump is actually going from a standard foot stance pump to goofy foot stance pump or vice versa, by hopping or shuffling the feet, and quite a bit trickier to master!
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backwards pump? or switch pump
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On 4/27/2006
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.167.nnn.nnn)
Is it necessary to call it "backward pump?" Isn't backward pump just switch stancing the pump? if so, switching lead foots for skogging to switch pump is a challenge akin to climbing a mountain peak. Have fun!
Chris Yandall
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backwards pump
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On 4/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
hey al-
ever since you made that post last week about backwards pumping, i've been trying that out during my rides. thanks for the tip! it does work an entirely different set of muscles, and it's easy to generate power from that stance.
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cyber mile
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On 4/27/2006 derek
wrote in from
United States
(24.16.nnn.nnn)
you da man james!
although the idea of gutting it out 2 times like that sounds a bit tough, it's a great way to eliminate wind and elevation issues, especially in an event where there is no direct competition required. i like your specs for the cyber mile. i can't wait to go out and give it a shot!
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more technique talk
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On 4/27/2006 Al Williams
wrote in from
Dominican Republic
(66.98.nnn.nnn)
Erin,
Regarding technique talk and sore muscles...try to throw in a 1/2k of 'backward' pumping every now and again, when the asphalt is very smooth. Really it is very refreshing and will add, both to the fun of the ride, as well as relieve some of the 'repetitive' motion fatigue frequently discussed.
It's probably better to do some reverse pumping in the 1st half of your ride, because it can be dangerous if you are overly fatigued. Falling while pumping is a bad enough experience as it is. But, falling 'butt first' in a fatiqued state, can be deadly..I think. The body in not accustomed to react to emergency conditions in this position, and so there could be some very unforseen consequences. However, this is just an extreme precaution. If you get used to pumping backwards, with your face looking over your shoulder to monitor road conditions, you will soon learn to recognize your limitations...while at the same time enjoying a refreshing change of pace in a LD pump session. Also, this type of riding isn't anything new for skaters. Both ice skateres, in-liners and quad skaters have been riding this style for decades. It's just time for LDpumpers to get into it!
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proposed Cyber Mile specs
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On 4/27/2006
peters
wrote in from
United States
(64.236.nnn.nnn)
As brought up here earlier, the Mile is a universally recognized standard for running distances, so it sounds like a compelling distance for LDP as well. Would like to "test" the Cyber Mile interest level before setting up an automated server-side entry/contest page. I'm willing to post up results people send in until it seems there's enough "work" to automate the process. Here's a shot at the specs:
The Cyber Mile
1. One mile, as flat as possible. The same one mile distance must be skated two times, once in each direction; the average will be calculated.
2. Unlimited flatland start, pushing or pumping. From start line to finish, either pump the entire length, push, or combine pushing and pumping.
3. Time starts when board crosses the Start Line.
4. Time stops when board reaches Finish line.
Please submit your best RAW times in each direction to pavedwave@comcast.net , with name, location, time1 & time2, and any comments -- and within a day or two it will be posted on a pavedwave directory page.
Example:
Name: Speedy Gonzales
Location: Salt Flats, UT
East: 6:15
West: 5:47
Comments: All push, Sector9 Tri-lam, Flashbacks, slight wind.
Any kinks in the specs or other recommendations, lemme know and I'll update!
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oldee butt goodee uni AIR
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On 4/27/2006
Chris Yandall
wrote in from
United States
(70.167.nnn.nnn)
a few years back screwing around in the backcountry :P . My wife at the time accused me of boredom... the nerve of her!
cYa
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How to Pump