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| Lords of Dogtown Movie (472 Posts)
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Discuss the Movie |
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NY Times story on mainstream skateboarding
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On 6/10/2005 Barb O.
wrote in from
United States
(68.5.nnn.nnn)
Sorry, I don't know where else to post this on ncdsa!
in this Sunday's NY Times (june 12)
headline is "Dogtown, USA" (see story for photos, here's the text):
THE real-life Lords of Dogtown still see skateboarders as outsider heroes who tackle bone-crushing steeps, break the law, fight, drink, swear and generally just offend the mere "civilians" who walk rather than ride.
"We get the beat-down from all over," said Tony Alva, who is played by Victor Rasuk in "Lords of Dogtown," the new film about young Southern California skateboarders in the mid-1970's, whose speed and agility changed the sport. "Everywhere we go, man, people hate us."
Yeah, right. Sony Pictures, a major Hollywood studio, spent $25 million on a movie aimed at a tiny audience of rebels. Better yet, the film's multimillion-dollar marketing campaign included a traveling art exhibition - with skateboards behind plexiglass - because the sport is so hated and devoid of mainstream respect.
Truth is, the ultimate outlaw road sport is now about as countercultural as yoga. What began as a marginalized activity, prohibited by many communities and embraced by early skaters for its go-to-hell attitude, has morphed into a mainstream youth sport dominated by doting parents and rules about safety. Its bad-boy past no longer defines it except as a marketing hook for the $17 T-shirts and $66 skate shoes that bring in eight times as much money as skateboards.
Among the new breed are polite, friendly skaters like Chris Atanasov, 18, who prefers to ride at the New York City-owned skate park in Riverside Park, where helmets are required, because he doesn't want to pay a fine for using the streets. Or Abby Devlin, 13, who was at a New Jersey mall last week buying sneakers at the Vans store even though she doesn't own a board. Or Greg Falchetto, 19, a Middlesex County College sophomore who said he sees skateboarding as simply an extension of his passion for punk.
"It's about a fashion thing now, more than anything," said Michael Brooke, the publisher of Concrete Wave, a skate magazine. "The amount of money spent on 'Dogtown' or the money in the shoe and clothing business is so enormous and so far away from the soul of what skating really is."
The numbers are large. More than $4.4 billion was spent last year on skateboard "soft goods," like T-shirts, shorts and sunglasses, according to Board-Trac, an action-sports research firm. Skateboarding equipment, including helmets, brought in a measly $809 million.
And while a survey by the National Sporting Goods Association showed that at least 10 million Americans used skateboards last year, up from 5.6 million in 1993, the growth comes primarily from those under 12. Most people drop the sport before they turn 20.
"Skateboarding now doesn't dominate peoples' lives," said Iain Borden, the author of "Skateboarding, Space and the City: Architecture and the Body" (Berg, 2001), a history of the sport. "People's cultural and lifestyle choices and allegiances are more complicated."
Most so-called skaters are only buying in superficially, he explained, by wearing hooded sweatshirts or playing video games like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater or watching the X Games, which put extreme skateboarding on television in the early 90's.
The decreased dedication to the sport may also be a function of age. Rock 'n' roll's edges have been blunted over the years, as stars like Mick Jagger sober up and wrinkle. Skateboarding seems to be experiencing a similar shift toward maturity and self-preservation.
Mr. Alva, a curly haired, hard-charging ruffian in the 1970's, says he still skates and surfs nearly every day at 47, but admits he can't party or skate as hard as he used to.
"You have to start thinking about your health," he said by telephone from his store in Oceanside, Calif. "We have the same attitude, but we make wiser decisions."
Alan Gelfand, 43, the creator of the ollie, a no-hands aerial feat that is the basis of most skating moves, said that everyone who visits his 11-foot-deep, 75-foot-long bowl in Hollywood, Fla., must wear a helmet.
"It's just the culture we live in today," he said. "I've been a helmet kind of guy for a while."
Even many parents - as if the sport needed yet another imprimatur of uncool - have taken up skateboarding as a way to bond with their children. Some say it's more fun and better organized than Little League.
Sherri Cruz, for example, a marketing assistant for the International Association of Skateboard Companies, is a member of the International Society of Skateboarding Moms. She said she skates regularly with her 10-year-old daughter, Rhiannon. They often go to events for girls sponsored by the shoe company Vans, which has a long association with skateboarding.
This mother and daughter also regularly visit skate parks. These sunny ramp-laden obstacle courses are perhaps the most visible reflection of skateboarding's softened edges. There are now nearly 2,000 parks throughout the country from mi
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Trivia Time
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On 6/10/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
Which skater in the Lords of Dogtown movie is doing stuntwork as Lindsay Lohan's skate double in Herbie: Fully Loaded? He/she is not yet credited for Herbie in the IMDb so you can't cheat.
lbk, If you had seen all of the sets and locations and actors and extras and...
I couldn't afford to buy everyone lunch on a single day on a single location. The union wages are incredible. They had to give me a trailer every day I was on the set because I was a "principal character", even though I got about as much screen time a an extra!
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Money, Money, Money?
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On 6/10/2005 lbk
wrote in from
United States
(69.143.nnn.nnn)
First off, Lords of Dogtown is a fun movie to go see. Sure beats the most of the typical Hollywood movies, TV shows, Cable & DVD's. But for the life of me. Why in the heck would it cost 25 to 30 million to make a movie like this. How much does an old z-flex Ago for on e-bay? A $100,000.00? I guess that pool cost a million to build. Not like Arnold Schwarzenegger was in the movie blowing up helicopters and wrecking entire city blocks of buildings. Then again, I have no concept of movie making expenses.
Who cares about all the money lost. Not our risk to worry about. Go see Lords of Dogtown and have a good time -then sneak into Herbie the Love Bug re-make.
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Another Freebie
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On 6/10/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I just remembered that I got a free ticket to see Lords of Dogtown when I bought the DT & Z-Boys special edition DVD. Looks like I am going to see again up on the big screen.
BTW, for all you cheap bastards who are going to wait for it to show up on DVD, you're missing out on an incredible opportunity. Whether or not you think this movie is a ten or zero is beside the point.
1. You should see it
2. You should see it in a theatre
3. If you don't see it a theatre now, you'll never be able to see it in the way it was intended to be seen in the future.
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for many though, that's a part of young adulthood
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On 6/10/2005 beentheredonethat
wrote in from
United States
(65.35.nnn.nnn)
Sarah, don't join the military then. The girls in your
barracks will drive you nuts if you feel that way. Same
in a college dorm. If you can afford your own place
with no roomates in the future, you'll be happier if
people making out in near vacinity to you weirds you out.
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....
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On 6/10/2005
Sarah
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
it would be very weird to be making out with my brothers friend rite next to him. Thats pretty messed up!!
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Money, money, money
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On 6/10/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
The film grossed $5.6 million over the first weekend and about $7.1 to date. It cost between $25M and $30M to make, and they threw another $18M at it in marketing. The gap between forty-something million that they've spent and the seven million that they've made will never be closed by box office sales alone. The deathblow to this as a money-maker is that it came in 6th place to Madagascar, The Longest Yard, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Cinderella Man, and Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
If theatre owners pull the movie out in favor of known good money-makers, less and less money is made which increases the likelihood of even more theatres dropping it. Foreign markets will help some, but they're going to have to get behind a big push for DVD sales if they ever hope to see a dime.
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Sid
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On 6/10/2005
MG
wrote in from
United States
(216.52.nnn.nnn)
Sid was fictional, but the part about him owning the dog bowl, and the dad letting his friends skate it because he was terminal was based on the kid Deano whose dad owned the real dog bowl.
Hackett, that song was funny. Wonder who that was.
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Sid
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On 6/10/2005 Ted
wrote in from
United States
(64.175.nnn.nnn)
What is the story of Sid? I don’t remember him in the documentary and he is not in the team group photo. Is he fiction?
Ted
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what-ever!
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On 6/10/2005 who-cares
wrote in from
United States
(71.107.nnn.nnn)
so how much duckets did it make the first day?
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lose money?
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On 6/10/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
what is the statis of the movie ,in the make/lose money sceen. By the way,a lot of money losing movie makers get to keep making movies because " their winners win by more than their losers lose" or maybe they don't actually lose money,it may just be some fancy accounting.how many Alva boards(and other "cruiser style boards")get sold by this movie,and truck that fit ,and wheels.
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japan
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On 6/10/2005
slim
wrote in from
United States
(69.110.nnn.nnn)
It's not being released in Japan either - even though they have a decent sized surf/skate scene. So don't feel so alone, Israel.
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not fair
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On 6/9/2005
maayan gresser
wrote in from
Israel
(62.90.nnn.nnn)
WHY ON EARTH IS THE MOVIE NOT COMING OUT IN ISRAEL???????????????????????
IT'S COMING OUT EVERYWHERE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!< br>DOES ANYONE KNOW????
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Fact or Fiction
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On 6/9/2005
Eddy
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
For those of us who lived and experienced the skateboarding scene exploding in the 70s. That was an awesome time. We lived through Skateboarder magazine, all across the country. The DogTown Chronicles were well written. The pics in the magazines of the Z-Boys style was totally rad. These dudes changed the way alot of skaters rode. The perception of what could be done was a reality and these bros were pulling it off, or attempting to pull it off, and pushing the limits. It is there time again. So there 15 minutes of fame has been reignited once again. Maybe it is a good thing, the younger crowd needs to be exposed to different skateboarding diciplines. Wentzle we all know who you are. You were and are a Z-Boy. No one can take that away from you, look forward to meeting you if you make it out to the GRS Chicago Slalom Race. Joe I those of us who know you are very fortunate to call you a friend. Eddy Texas Outlaws.
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Privacy?
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On 6/9/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I thought it seemed a bit awkward in the movie too, but then I remembered that in our dorm room at San Diego State, our idea of privacy was giving the roommate a set of earplugs whenever we had company.
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lordy oh lordy
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On 6/9/2005
JT
wrote in from
United States
(65.38.nnn.nnn)
Smitty, I too have 16 and 13 year old and I could of said, ”Hey we are not seeing this” but this is boarding history they have to see it. I just want the facts. “Riding Giants” “Dogtown and Z-Boys” good stuff. I don’t need Hollywood’s interpretation of life or riding. It is such a pure thing leave the crap out. If I want that... I'll rent Pulp Fiction.
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ALVA'S SISTER
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On 6/9/2005 ChAiNsAw
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Did anybody find it kind
of kreepy when jay and ALVA's
sister went into the bed room
to get it on and ALVA'S was 2 feet
from them with anther girl i don't
know if that was true or not but wow
a little to close for me maybe thats
how it was i don't have a sister but
if i did and my best bro was 2 feet next
to gettin it on with my sis i don't think so!
good movie
dagger's rule
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skactors
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On 6/9/2005
Bob
wrote in from
United States
(66.68.nnn.nnn)
Stubbs -- sometimes despite your overall world-view (haha) you get it right. This looks like one of those times.
Please excuse this post from someone who knows nothing about the movie -- I just wanted to reply to Stubbs.
Bob
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lords of dogtown
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On 6/9/2005 nicktheripper
wrote in from
United States
(68.189.nnn.nnn)
the spin mag article on lords of dogtown is the real story. it was released and 7 years ago, when everything was underground. i wonder if anyone of you knows wahat i'm talkin about. here's a clue, what killer had a pool that they skated. take a guess
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Wentzle
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On 6/9/2005 Stubbs
wrote in from
United States
(209.30.nnn.nnn)
If this movie has a Ruml character in it and Ruml was not compensated, someone owes Ruml money, PERIOD. And I know Wentzle does not give two big turds about the money. It's the principle of it all and that is B.S.
F*#K those responsible.
Make that the irresponsible.
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Yo Hackett
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On 6/9/2005 Joe I
wrote in from
United States
(63.87.nnn.nnn)
That's an amazing song. Who sings it?
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Dear Chris,
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On 6/9/2005 Joe I
wrote in from
United States
(63.87.nnn.nnn)
Chris,
Vans used photos and a sound byte from the documentary w/o permission. LODT used a character named Wentzle w/o permission. The only thing one has to do with the other is exploitation.
My point about the $5K was that while not a lot of money, it was at least a token of respect. And while it is a subplot of both films, not handling their business well is part of the story. Its IRONIC that someone connected with each film helped perpetuated that.
The only difference it makes to me is my friend is getting phone calls from newspapers and magazines for his take on the movie. He's taking the high road and has little say, but what could have been a really cool experience for him is turning out to be another s#@!ty one. They had two premieres I know of and numerous previews. They didn't invite him to any and regardless of how the script reads, it's still a story based on him and friends.
On a completely seperate note;
I got invited to a preview. I thought it was a fun and funny movie. I got a kick out of seeing you, Jack, etc. I hope it is good for our sport because I could hold a thousand slaom races and never reach the same audience LODT will.
Joe
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who's hot and what's not
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On 6/9/2005 paris is in france
wrote in from
United States
(68.218.nnn.nnn)
(loseYmoney)
Sony will lose millions on the first run film, rake in the profits on merchandising and DVD sales.
Peralta, concerned that he's fading into obscurity, picks up a slalom deck, snaps a Radikal kingpin and is confined to a wheelchair for the remainder of his (pathetic) life.
Jeff Ho, oblivious to the whole thing, maintains inner peace (and I hear he doesn't even vote in presidential elections).
Meanwhile, I'll be at the skatepark again tonight while the rest of you mow lawns, treat hemorrhoids, and grow bitter in your old age.
It's off.
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Happy Chappy
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On 6/9/2005
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
United States
(66.116.nnn.nnn)
I'm confused. Vans used a photo and sound byte and it's Sony's fault?
And regarding the money, if someone signed on for $5,000.00 and they got the money, why should anyone else care about the money?
The studios are pretty damn good about making sure that their asses are covered. The unions take care of their own. If someone has been wronged and feels that he should be compensated by it, then there are certain action steps that he can take.
No one is going to shed a tear for the big bad studios but it appears that this movie will possibly lose tens of MILLIONS of dollars and that the careers of some extremely hardworking individuals who helped to make this movie happen are going down the toilet.
Wentzl is an extremely cool guy and got an increible amount of screen time in DT & Z-Boys. In addition to his skating, he is a gifted speaker, storyteller and charismatic actor. You can point a camera at him and without much more than a talking point, he'll give you a collection of useable material, which is gold for a fillmaker. With other guys it's like pulling teeth to get more than a yes or a no.
Just like back in the day, a lot of guys are going to feel snubbed by the magazines, companies and the media. It wasn't "fair" then, and it's not fair now. Artists are artists. Atheletes are athletes. Skaters are a little of both. If they don't get adequate representation, they tend to get what they get. Making a movie of such monsterous proportions is going to leave many people unhappy, regardless of how careful (or careless) they are. I know firsthand what it's like to be left out, cut out, and bummed out. There is an entire location with 600 extras dedicated to the 1976 World Championships in Long Beach - but there is no mention of the guy who actually won the main event (me). But if you look real hard in the background scenes (all my skating scenes were cut), you'll get glimpses of a 70's porn star in a women's softball uniform under a blonde wig and fake moustache. If this were MY movie, I'd be bummed. But it ain't my movie. And I didn't lose money - I made money, doing something that I love. It doesn't sound like such a bad deal when I put it that way...
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