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| Q&A: Going Downhill with David Rogers (858 Posts)
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Hangers
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On 10/23/2005
K-Rimes
wrote in from
Canada
(24.87.nnn.nnn)
I've ridden many, many DH trucks, and in different states of tightness. I find that the JimZ hanger with the ball bearing is a very nice feel, it takes your normal DH feel and makes it super accurate and allows a very controlled drift and corner on pavement, it also takes a flywheel from being slightly unpredictable to being as predictable if not more than a Krypto 85.
The ball joint, like a Comp-II, is difficult to take care of, especially living in Vancouver's rainy weather. I'll most likely be purchasing a set of Luge Hangers to ride on a DH board and then I'll have the ability to ride both trucks on the same board and tell the minute differences between the two.
I've also own the Landyachtz Prototypes, they are VERY low to the ground, they lower you almost an inch! But they also have no turning whatsoever, I was surprised to find this out when I made the trip to Maryhill. You may remember that Dennis.
Overall, I'd like to have a 10mm axle, in a Comp-II hanger, with the accuracy of a JimZ, with a price range of around... 150 US for a set.
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trucks
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On 10/23/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
Ohh yeah I second that 100 bucks part...
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TRUCKS
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On 10/23/2005
Andreas
wrote in from
Sweden
(83.227.nnn.nnn)
These last posts have been super intresting to read and i would realy like to hear more on views about trucks.
I have been working on a truck for some time and it is in the cad stage right now. I dont want to say to much but it is realy looking good , I´ll just say that David is realy close.
Keep it up Andreas
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trucks
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On 10/22/2005 dennis
wrote in from
United States
(216.9.nnn.nnn)
I found little difference between my comp two's and regular dh's but I prefer that the hanger is wider(170mm) instead of the 160. the 180 hangers on the dh plates are probably my favorite becase of that surfy feel mentioned early. But about the axels spinning. mine always seem to on my floaters whenever I look down there. guess the axels are still reletively straight. the bigs peeve I have with them tho is the maintenence, so much work to keep them rolling right and then the seem to only last about 4 hard runs down ,say MAryhill before needing to be serviced again.
I can't coment on the "at speed" feel cause Ive never riden JimZ's hangars, but I've stood on them on Farmerys board and I don't THINK they can get loose enough for my riding style even with no nut on the kingpin. Then again I like my stuff freakishly loose.
but everyybodys rides different and they seem to work really well for some guys out there.
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yer askin
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On 10/22/2005
david price
wrote in from
United States
(67.100.nnn.nnn)
dave, i'm with you on the ball joints...i've never really done any serious hill bombing on jim Z's hangers, but from what people have told me they are a little twichy and definetly hard to get used to if you normally ride randals...then again tom(meatball) rides them never seems to affect him.....but the ball joints in downhill trucks do seem a little unnessesary, i personally like the "surfy" feel that comes from the un-precise randals. however, this does not mean i like un-precise trucks for racing and riding hard. interestingly, i was riding my comp-II trucks at maryhill last weekend, clocked at about 39 by a GPS device, and in one of the strait aways i looked down at trucks and saw that the spinning axel was in fact not spinning at all. this is probably because the axel is slightly bent and therefore useless as a floating axel.
i like the safety feature of the spinning axel, and the potential it has for faster top speed(debatable)...if i were dreaming of a perfect truck....it would basically be a comp-II CNC machined baseplates that are PRECISE, not like the randal ones that the holes are'nt even drilled right. the hanger would be all aluminum CNC machined with a 10mm Ti axle with spacers built into the axle so you could tighten the wheel nuts down all the way and have no play yet still have a spinning axel, because as i'm sure you know, with the current comp-IIs, you can't tighten the nuts down to much otherwise the axel won't spin. this could be easily solved by having some kind of spacer between the bearings that float the axle, with speedrings built in so changing wheels would'nt be a pain in the ass....i think that some kind of hard plastic for a pivot cup, like delrin would be good to make the truck be more precise but would'nt have the rattling feeling of metal-metal like the jimz's, radikal, etc..
yea so if you make that truck for like 100 bucks, i'll buy it!
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Trucks, hangers, beans
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On 10/21/2005
David Rogers
wrote in from
United States
(66.14.nnn.nnn)
Just playing with some ideas....things were a bit slow at work a few weeks back...one hint...laser
Fredrik, david and others....What do you guys want to see in a DH race truck? width? angle? geometry? axle? price? etc.
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More on trucks
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On 10/21/2005
David Rogers
wrote in from
United States
(66.14.nnn.nnn)
hc...I have been on a few trucks with ball joint pivots. In my opinion there are advantages and disadvantages associated with the ball joints. For loose setups, like front slalom trucks, these joints hold the hanger in the correct position when the bushings/cushions are too loose to do the job. Ball joints seem like a good thing for slalom setups.
For downhill, the setups are typically much tighter, and the bushings seem to do a good job of keeping the hanger in position. I don’t feel like I need ball joints on my downhill board.
Advantages:
Ball joint pivots around the kingpin hold the hanger in precise relationship with the kingpin.
Great for loose (slalom) setups and quick/precise turning.
Disadvantages:
Expensive.
May require removal of kingpin to pull hanger or change bushings/cushions.
Transmits more road vibration due to metal-to-metal contact.
Increased loads on kingpin.
Increased noise.
Possibility of jamming or failure of the ball joint.
Increased distance between cushions/bushings.
brad....I don’t think the ball pivots make a big difference in how well a downhill truck turns. When going 50+ mph, most trucks have plenty of response. Typically you tighten your trucks up a bit to take some of the “responsiveness” out of them. Slalom and Downhill setups are very different.
Comp 2’s...170mm, 35 degree base, hanger can be flipped for geometry/ride height change, floating axle, ground/hardened axle, heavy, strong, seem to turn better than the downhill hangers when loosened up.
Downhills...160mm, 35 degree, standard axle, beefier hanger than RII, very stable at speed.
RIIs...180mm, 50 degree, hanger can be flipped for geometry/ride height change, standard axle, best turning Randal for carving setups.
My comp 2’s...2.75” or 3” grade 8 kingpin, flipped so adjustment is on the nut, Kingpin is epoxied into the baseplate. Black Randal bottom bushing in standard cup washer. Tall red Randal bushing on top with flipped small cup washer. Tall locknut if there is room.
herbn...I was referring to the entire bushing seat that interacts with the bushings during a turn...not just the depression that holds the bushing in the correct position. I agree that an accurate “interlock” between the bushing and hanger is a good thing....I think the bushing should fit tightly on the kingpin as well. The shape of the sides of the hanger that interact with the bushings have a lot to do with how the truck turns and performs.
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interlock between the hanger and the bushing
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On 10/19/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(216.233.nnn.nnn)
what would be the symptoms when there is not a good interlock between the hangars and the bushings: control? stability? turnability?
i thought this could be the cause of recent problems on my Trackers RTS/X resulting in one front (back) wheel being lower than the other, so that the four wheels do not lay evenly on the ground, three are on the ground and one is in the air, and when I fix the front, the back gets out of alignment, and i thought this had to d with the interlock between the bushings and hangar and even gave up on one truck
my randls seem to have bushing fit problems when i use large barrel or hourglass bushings, and often when i use other kinds of large bushings, i find the fit of the bushing in it's seat is poor and requires careful tightening of the kingpin
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spill the beans!
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On 10/19/2005
david
wrote in from
United States
(67.100.nnn.nnn)
somebody mentioned hangers, the cats out of the bag now, might as well throw some pics up and show us what you're been workin on...
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Truck n´roll !
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On 10/19/2005 Fredrik
wrote in from
Sweden
(85.225.nnn.nnn)
Tell me there is a Rogers Bros Speed Truck out there!
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Sunday R&D
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On 10/16/2005 JR
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
David, those hangers looked really nice! You never cease to amaze me with your clean and functional designs. I can't wait to see how sweet they look on an anodized race deck. Keep up the awesome work bro!
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just reading back
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On 10/16/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
to your dh truck preferences,some opinions ,a few facts,but the "bushing control of a curved seat" hhmmm i don't think so, i think that's more than an opinion, an accurate interlock between the hanger and the bushing and the baseplate is definitely a good thing,i've machined the bushing seat on a set of randal dh's.
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Maryhill footage
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On 10/14/2005 JR
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
My footage will not be available for about a month. Dave Auld has graciously agreed to host it on his very cool site
http://www.auldovertheroad.com
Dave is in the process of moving to the Connecticut, and he said he will make the video available as soon as he gets a chance. Sorry it won't be sooner, but I will let everybody know when it can be viewed.
This site is my favorite for streetluge and buttboard photos and videos. Dave is a great guy and his site is first rate. Check it out for some historical Rogers Bros. stuff and for past gravity event photos. It features the most complete chronology of luge events that I know of.
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Speed truck talk
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On 10/14/2005
brad
wrote in from
United States
(155.229.nnn.nnn)
David,
What are the advantages, from your experience, of the Randal Comp II's over the Randal Downhill and Randal II 180s?
What bushings do you use in your Randal Comp II's, and just wondering if you could provide a little more detail about the pivot differences, i.e., you said which you prefer, but I'm wondering how these ball joint (Radikal, JimZ) pivots behave differently at downhill speeds than the Randals, while the Radikals work so well for slalom.
Also, do you change the stock kingpin in your Comp IIs, as suggested elsewhere by CC (longer kingpin to allow for taller bushings, different head making adjustment easier, and revere the pin so that the adjustment is on the nut and not the bolt)?
Is this truck difference generally a trade-off between the kinds of turns needed on a downhill at high speeds vs. the quick turnability required for slalom at speeds under 40?
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links to the Mary footy
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On 10/13/2005 GI Joe
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
These evergreen links never work for me. Is their site down that often or is it me?
Joe
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ball joint
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On 10/13/2005 hc
wrote in from
United States
(168.149.nnn.nnn)
David wrote, "I don't want "ball joint" bearings at the pivot points...Radikal and JimZ use this method"
David, just wonder if you have tested these above trucks. If you have what don't you like about it? instablity? unnecessary complexity?
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mary footy
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On 10/13/2005 david
wrote in from
United States
(67.100.nnn.nnn)
i have that footie..i can load in back onto my server space....need to get better footie this weekend. can't wait to rip it with you deano...prayin' for a tailwind!
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Maryhill footage
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On 10/12/2005
Deano
wrote in from
United States
(209.181.nnn.nnn)
Here is a link to some footage from Maryhill. There is some additional skate scenes but there is a great section with lots of POV footage. I believe Dennis has one full run taken from POV, ask him nicely where on the web it is located. That is a great training vid as you can put it on the tube and get in a tuck in your living room.
http://academic.evergreen.edu/p/pridav25/sk8movies/Seattle_Sessions-Lo-Res.mov
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Maryhill footage
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On 10/12/2005
GI Joe
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
There is never enough Maryhill footage! I'm looking forward to it.
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Maryhill footage
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On 10/12/2005 John
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
I am going to be meeting w/ some guys this week to share luge footage and I will see if that SK8 footage can be made available as well. Sorry I have not done anything sooner. I only have a dial-up connection and I can not post anything from my current arrangement. I am also fairly ignorant about the best sizing and the type of format for sharing via the internet. I have not played around with making something in a RealVideo or Windows Media format. Hopefully I will be better educated after my meeting with the "luge geek squad".
I have done some editing on my computer, but for some reason I am running into problems burning a DVD. I am using an older editing program, Pinnacle Studio 8, and I can generate a decent looking VCD, but I get an error message during the DVD compiling process. I have had limited success with even short DVD making and I hope to get this problem squared away.
I hope to post again soon with an address for that Maryhill POV. Thanks for the interest and SK8 safe!
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sick footy
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On 10/8/2005
mike p
wrote in from
United States
(129.210.nnn.nnn)
hey man. on the first day at maryhill, there was a certain session that had about eight guys skatin together either you or john filmed it (i think john did.) Do you have that posted anywhere, or is there anyway for me to check it out? i cant wait for the next race thats close enough that i will be able to afford to go. i was so bummed that sf grav fest got cancelled. peace
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Speed truck talk
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On 10/7/2005
David Rogers
wrote in from
United States
(66.14.nnn.nnn)
Fredrik...I really like my Randal Comp II's for racing. They are strong, heavy, stable, have a quality axle, and the hanger can be flipped for a different geometry. They are relatively inexpensive when compared to the CNC trucks that are on the market now. The main complaints I have heard voiced against the Randals are: price, weight, extra bearings, difficult wheel changes and poor machining accuracy. I like the weight, I like the floating axle feature, changing wheels never seemed very difficult....just different. My Comp II's seem straight and I have been on the same trucks and axles for over 5 years. I have seen some poorly machined Randals thru the years...mainly RII baseplates.
The machining accuracy is the only thing I would want to improve if I was making trucks.
Dennis...For racing, I'm a Randal Comp II 170 fan. The CNC trucks you listed are all really nice, but most have a feature or two that I don't want on my speedboard.
I like the 35 degree baseplate angle...Maguns only come in 45 or 50 I think.
I don't want "screw in axles"...Magun? and Radikal use this method.
I don't want "ball joint" bearings at the pivot points...Radikal and JimZ use this method.
I don't need 10mm axles.. only offered by JimZ.
I like the curved shape of the bushing seats in the cast Randal hanger...the CNC trucks have flat or stepped bushing seats that don't "control" the bushings as well.
Some features of these CNC trucks work great in slalom truck applications...I'm giving my opinion about downhill speedboarding trucks.
See Ya!!
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Speedtrucks
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On 10/6/2005 Dennis
wrote in from
Sweden
(83.250.nnn.nnn)
Hey bros! =)
Which of these 3 trucks would you recommend for speedboarding.
1. Jimz with his own baseplate and 200/10mm axel, 173/8mm axel.
2. Maguns Speedtruck
3. Radikal Dragons Talon
4. Randals comp II (170 or 205mm hanger)
Would really appriciate an answer!
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Trucks according to The Rogers Bros
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On 10/4/2005
Fredrik
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.65.nnn.nnn)
Hi Dave! If you were going to make a Rogers Bros Speed Truck, what would it be like?
Take care man!
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Abq events
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On 9/29/2005 GI Joe
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
I understand totally!! This will be the first Abq event that you've missed
in a LONG time!! You will be with us in spirit as we ride the freshly
re-paved Sandia Crest Road, etc,etc. The Rogers Bros have consistently
represented here and you will be rewarded in our new DVD featuring your
performances here and elsewhere. Release is set for Thanksiving.
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