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| Truck Reviews (15215 Posts)
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munch's trucks
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On 5/2/2008 cam
wrote in from
Australia
(220.233.nnn.nnn)
nah mate, unless its an original straight pivot fultrack.
Fultracks today all have the bent, big pivot similar to the rts.
for the record which one rode better?the stamped rtx, or the no name hanger?
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RTX or not RTX, that is the question?
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On 5/2/2008
munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(217.44.nnn.nnn)
can anyone answer this one, both these are from RTX trucks, but i always knew one rode better than the other, i only just realised they are very different, is the one without the RTX stamp a FULL Track?
A bit of a misshap on the assambly line i recon?
What you think?
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scriber on ebay
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On 4/30/2008 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
well at least for the next 5 hrs or so,though i think you'll see it a bunch,it's got packaging and the 175 dollar starting bid sounds kind of reasonable. I'm not sure if i like the bulging spherical ball joint type of thing in the middle of that long unsupported axle,between unintentional grinds and longterm fatigue, the whole setup is probabely kind of heavy which does make a difference even if you're "only" carving. ten degree increments of adjustment are probabely enough, 60,50,40,30 maybe 20 and 70 though those are sort of extreme. I remember form seeing the vid once,the rubber wheels are used in the manuverable truck settings and can hold a real tight radius,on the going fast,slidey shots suddenly colored urithane wheels show up,so you can bet that your own results will be similar,reset trucks ,swap wheels,then swapping back,,not bad ,but getting a different board out of the trunk sounds better to me.
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pumping trucks
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On 4/27/2008
munchh
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(217.44.nnn.nnn)
Hey Glenn,
not that old rake thing again...hehe, just kidding buddy, i recon your onto something, but after seeing Mmedo get through the cones on my new pump setup, 25 1/2" WB 4.3 Bennett front 5 degree wedge 106RTS rear, i'm not sure that you need any wedge for the Bennett?
Like we were talking about yesterday, its the way it tips or dives into its gyometry, its so different.
I personally dont like it on the Gecko at 19", it feels like its 14" WB, but on a longer WB its rocks.
HC i too am into Mid-DP, i decided LDP is just something im not capable of and James sent me a CX and it fells like alot of carvy fun, but i never got it to pump any butter than my RTS/X, but i totaly understand why James has the Bennett on the front, i dont think all the Skennett type mods are even needed, with a standard 4.3 being basicaly the same width as the Skennett with spacers, if its matched with the RTS its just as good, running a Skennett at 95mm just seems crazy, but mabie its supposed to be used at a longer WB than the TS Massey decks you see them on where we skate?
The fact that you can pump the Bennett without having your foot over the truck, makes it for a much longer deck, for me anyway, i've got a single 5.0 coming now i understand how to use them.
I still hope those new 125mm RII hangers on a 35 for the rear and 60 for the front will be my next GS setup??
Custom setups Mr.Randal, its a good idea!
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Scriber trucks
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On 4/21/2008 rusty grommet
wrote in from
United States
(71.227.nnn.nnn)
Yeah they do. I'm not tech savy enough to put the pic on this post but Ben has some on the silverfish longboarding forum. Just search Scriber in the forum search and go down the thread. He's got pics of the original and the new versions coming out this summer. You can also see some on his website at grombiz.com
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sounds nice, really nice.
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On 4/21/2008 Sam of NY
wrote in from
United States
(69.125.nnn.nnn)
wow? but! do they look as sexy as they sound?
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Scriber Trucks
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On 4/20/2008 Rusty Grommet
wrote in from
United States
(71.227.nnn.nnn)
Speaking of new trucks coming out in 08. I hear Grombiz (maker of the Scriber) from AU is making a new version of their adjustable trucks. They lose the spring suspension and go back to bushings. I think alot of boarders found the originals too loose. Anyway, here's some info I found about them. Anybody ever try a Scriber?
This is from Ben at Grombiz:
What we have done with our new truck design is, look at the "tried and proven reverse kingpin designs" and work out what is it that makes them so successful. The Grom Biz truck has taken what we feel to be the key important pieces and incorporate them into our design and then adding quite a number of enhancements.
Speed Boarding:
With the Grom Biz trucks our roll centre is in the center of the axle but more importantly adjustable steering geometry. This is important as I'm sure a lot of you know, this allows you to adjust the rear truck to become a zero steering truck and neutral caster or "flopper" which means you can eliminate speed wobbles and allow steering only in the front truck. The amount of steering is of course able to be fine tuned to suit the course you are racing. The new trucks will have 5 deg adjustments for very fine tuning.
Zero Axle Roll Centre (Zero Caster Angle):
The effect of caster angle, either positive or negative, (hanger above or below centre line pivot) on the steering of a skateboard has the effect of either pulling towards or away from the line of travel. (For those of you have experienced a rear truck with incorrect caster and have it steer out from under you will understand). Under fine control at speed and cornering this can be very unsettling to the rider and having a neutral roll centre or caster places the complete steering management within the control of the rider and not the design of the truck.
This is a very complex feature of steering geometry and is often addressed by over tightening the bushings at the cost of deck steering angle and steering sensitivity. The Grom Biz truck not only separates out the function of steering pivot and steering dampening by pivoting the main axle centrally on a trunion axle and bearings to manage precision steering geometry and the bushings (70A, 80A and 90A) are there purely there to manage steering dampening.
Another feature that I will mention is the ability to adjust the bushing stiffness and steering geometry without tools. This means as you adjust steering geometry and the change in steering angle has an effect on the bushing performance you can adjust the tension to suite.
The Grom Biz truck also has adjustable axle length currently from 200mm axles to 290mm we are working on 160mm and 180mm hangers which will be able to be swapped out on the truck.
The Grom Biz truck now uses 70a 80a and 90a bushings so from a rider feel the trucks will feel very similar. However the bushing adjustment also goes one step further with the ability to ride with 2 or 4 bushings per truck so the volume of bushing material can be increased or decreased to suite styles or rider weight.
Cheers
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The fallen, but finally heard, tree...
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On 4/17/2008 David
wrote in from
United States
(69.178.nnn.nnn)
Herbn,
Thanks for the input brother. I'll just go back to laying in the forest...
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another falling tree
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On 4/17/2008 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
I'm surprized this hasn't been mentioned, new randals, well just an r2 with enough mods to qualify as an r3 in my book. In 5 minute glance these are the changes i see; 1)fatter more grindable hanger,2)hollow areas in the hanger(axle shows) on the non grinded side of the axle,3)axle exposed in bushing area (might be a bit lower?) the gussets in the hanger look a bit thicker and repositioned,twisted more verticle,4) the ribs on either side of the bushings are beveled,5) the pivot bushing looks abit thicker it sticks out of the baseplate looks like there's more overlap with the hanger,6) the baseplate looks a bit fatter on the sides of the pivot bushing,7)the gussets on the side of the baseplate extend further up towards the bushings,8)the nut on the kingpin seems really snug and accurately fitted in the baseplate,unfortunately the pivot seems a just bit off center in the casting,it takes abit of doing to measure if it's centered to the holes,it could be,but it's probabely not alas. I was hoping the axles would be a bit closer to 8mm (like tensors)but they are not.
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time to guess
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On 4/17/2008 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
two weeks unanswered ,uncommented on,ever feel like you're the proverbial falling tree in the middle of the woods,with no one around to hear the sound? with the economy in a bit of a slump and the first liquids are supposed to be the pricy cnc'd kind of prototypes it may be a wise judgement call to put them on the back burner. Also the longboard/slalom market is pretty small(compared to regular boards) and the people that may spend that kind of money on trucks is a smaller yet subset,right now might be considered the year of the gog, next year the free spending,well healed, topend truck buyers will be looking for for yet another top end truck.
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Liquid trucks/Mojo bushings
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On 4/2/2008 David
wrote in from
United States
(69.178.nnn.nnn)
Has anyone heard anything regarding the release of Chris Chaput's Liquid trucks with the Mojo bushings? I see the ads, I perused Abec11's website, but all I find are the words "coming soon"...and it's been months. If you're out there Chris...I'm dying man!
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carver
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On 4/1/2008 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.132.nnn.nnn)
I have that simpler carver cx.
I guess James from paved wave have the most LDP experience.
he was using the carver cx frt, but I believe he rides a steeply wedged bennett now.
I didn't get a chance to see him do his ldp pump in person when I met him last year, but I briefly rode his setup, felt very strange for me...
I am more interested in medium distance, fastest setup for the quarter/half/full mile.
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Carver
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On 3/31/2008 Glenn
wrote in from
United States
(159.153.nnn.nnn)
I've never tried the simpler Carver truck though I have ridden the older complicated version. Felt like tick-ticking with the wheels down and very impressive from a standstill with a simple rotating style. I'm not convinced that the same is required for a slalom style pump where pulling the board side to side under you seems more important. The best long distance pumping setup i've tried (and I haven't tried much) was a '70s Indy with a 10* or so wedge at the front (so a fair amount of positive rake) and a 50* baseplated splitfire on the back of a 38" Fibreflex pintail. The only setup i've tried that can eat a mile-without-putting-my-foot-down quicker than my slalom setup.
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Bennetts and Rake and stuff
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On 3/29/2008 Paul Howard
wrote in from
United States
(65.122.nnn.nnn)
Hmm, I did try putting the bennett on a 10degree positive wedge also and it didn't make much difference in the aforementioned "stuck in 2nd gear" and other effects, it just wasn't quite as "whippy" in the front. Sometime I'll try again putting it to a shallower pos wedge yet, something similar to the 7 degrees you are using and see what happens.
I think you are correct that the pivot angle of a Bennett may be steeper than that of a Tracker RT-X, but also the axle of the Bennett is farther away(in front of, in the case of the front truck) from the pivot line and to me that is what gives it the "stuck in 2nd gear" effect. Yes, I do agree it IS a good pumping truck for sure, I like it a lot on my 36" board to crank around pumping on flat ground.
Have you tried the single action CARVER front truck (the one that heel flippers can't figure out which way to mount)? That has NEGATIVE rake because the axle is behind/inside relative to the pivot axis and you can really feel it pull you forward(more than a Radikal front or any other truck does) which is why the Long Distance Pump guys like it so much. The idea would be great for slalom but the truck is about 6" across the hanger. I suppose it could be narrowed by cutting and lathing.
Adios - Paul
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Rake and Bennetts
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On 3/28/2008 Glenn
wrote in from
United States
(159.153.nnn.nnn)
Paul, you say the RTX and Bennett setups were "exactly the same" other than the truck. Isn't it the case that the Bennet has a significantly steeper angle than the Tracker and would need to be less wedged to match the angles to specifically compare the effect of it's different rake.
Maybe the Bennet Effect and being stuck in second gear that you describe is the feel of a truck with too steep an angle. Super easy to start pumping, almost like tic-tacking with your front wheels down, but, as you say, like being stuck in second gear.
I run a Bennett (well, a skenett) with about 7* of wedge and it's my favourite slalom and pumping truck.
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tracker factory
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On 3/24/2008 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.132.nnn.nnn)
http://www.titus.de/screen.phtml?screen=ws_showentry&ForumID=330&MainPostingID=7761667
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funny clip
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On 3/23/2008 hc
wrote in from
United States
(71.132.nnn.nnn)
http://www.loadedboards.com/shops/Videos/valentimes.mov
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My 2 Cents on Rake and Geometry for slalom
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On 3/20/2008 Paul Howard
wrote in from
United States
(65.122.nnn.nnn)
First, hopefully I'm using the term "Rake" correctly,
If you use a Radikal Front with Negative rake but steep steering pivot angle on a flat tight course, you will feel it "pull" you through the cones as you pump, if you don't believe this, just put any Tracker, Indy, etc on front first then change to the radikal. Surprizingly, if you put a Phase I Splitfire(a moment of silence please) or Airflow OS (both with the RT-X baseplate) on FRONT with 15 degrees positive wedging and really soft squishy bushings, you will notice a very similar effect. Very similar.
The Bennett has Too much rake in my opinion because if I ride a tight course on a slope with a Tracker RT-X, Indy, or Radikal in front and all about 10 to 15 degrees positively wedged, I can go pretty quick, pump well and have plenty of front-end traction. Then when I switch to the Bennett(same exact setup otherwise), I can feel it making the front wheels start to break traction and also work against me slowing me down acting like brake of sorts that I can feel pushing and resisting forward movement. This ONLY happens once you reach a rapid enough rate of turns. Below this rate-of-turn, such as cruising and flatland pumping a longboard with Bennetts, this "Bennett effect" doesn't come into play, in fact, for slower flat land travel, they pump easier. It's sort of like being in 2nd gear is good for easy pumping on flat but being stuck in 2nd gear is bad on a slope with the cones coming at you rapidly. I believe this is an effect of the large amount of rake. Once I return to an RT-X in front on the slope with tight cones, I really feel a return of "pull" from the front end as I pump.
For a rear truck on bigger courses I use a Seismic 30 degree, sometimes unwedged and sometimes negative wedged about 7-8 degrees. These trucks STICK, especially when negatively wedged because rake is small and the pivoting is close to the axle and far from your rear foot. This makes it so you have to move the tail of the board in a bigger arc over that pivot point so close to the axle/ground. That means that now both wheels are loaded more evenly with pressure to the pavement, as opposed to rear truck that has more rake and pivots closer to your foot which makes it so that the inner wheel has less pressure on it and the outer wheel has more and it skips around and slides more. I think. That's my theory.
However, for "tighter-than-big" courses, I use a Phase I Splitfire(another moment of silence please) since the Seismic 30 degree truck is just a little taller and slower than what I like for a tighter course.
Side Note: The action of the PVD and Seismic are VERY similar, and thus I'm sure that's why both make less-than-ideal front trucks for the quick turn demands of slalom, but they both make GREAT Rear trucks for traction and stability. I believe that's why you see people quit using them both on front but you still see people who like each truck still using them as a rear truck.
OK, enough for now. Schlater - P
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bennett kh mod with ball pivot
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On 3/20/2008 Stéphane Fournier
wrote in from
Canada
(67.70.nnn.nnn)
bennett truck with 100mm hanger, with ball pivot.comes with original bushing and is the original axle.
To see it
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=65&u=11046375
http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/11/04/63/75/truck_11.jpg
for information
stepahne5@yahoo.fr
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geometry trends
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On 3/12/2008 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(67.83.nnn.nnn)
i'm not sure about specific after market trucks over the years, but basicly a raked truck with a steep geometry up front gets the turns initiated and a unraked or less raked "randalesque" truck out back is probabely the most common setup and will probabely continue. i think the perpendicular(randal) kingpin angle is better ,but on a really steep geometry the kingpin angle gets very weird,almost parallel to the board,so a "conventional" truck may work a bit better.
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Rake
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On 3/12/2008 Glenn
wrote in from
United States
(159.153.nnn.nnn)
I can see the logic. Personally, i've always seen that logically a positive Rake must reduce the 'tippiness' of a board. I just don't understand the evolution.
Everyone started out with a standard Indy/Tracker style truck and a bit of wedging.
tweakers start splitting axles and offseting such that the axle line intersects the kingpin line for (close to) zero rake.
Expensive custom machined rear tucks are made also with (close to) zero rake.
The Radikal rear avoids being (close to) zero rake by offseting the axles back to aproximately where they were on an Indy rake-wise.
The implication being that either:
a) the move to (close to zero) rake was wrong headed wishful thinking.
b) it doesn't make a lot of diference.
c) it's about personal preference.
d) the design of the radikal read is wrong headed but looks kind of right because people are used to seeing offset arms on rear trucks.
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reduced rake rethink
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On 3/11/2008 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.127.nnn.nnn)
maybe it's for more traction?a lot of rake kind of scrubs/smears the contact patch.
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Rake
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On 3/11/2008 Glenn (in the UK- work internet lies!)
wrote in from
United States
(159.153.nnn.nnn)
I can understand how the extra swing might help, just don't understand how it fits in with everyone else's rear truck logic of getting close to zero rake with offsets etc...
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guessing
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On 3/10/2008 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(71.127.nnn.nnn)
i'm looking at the latest gog gear, figure that's state of the art. On a very small scale the front steers around cones the back follows(obviously) and the extra rake swings the back of the deck clear of the cone on whatever close tolerences that cones are cleared by, an extra cm or so(of swing) probabely gets the tail around the cone . The front of the board has more traction so harder wheels and more steering cab be done up front, the back needs softer wheels and less steering, to reduce the tendency to spin out. If someone has a better theory, or knows what's happening from first hand experience,post away,just my$.02
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Rake
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On 3/10/2008 Glenn
wrote in from
United States
(159.153.nnn.nnn)
Interesting points about Rake. My eldest son and I have Slalom boards have front trucks with a significant positive rake (Lazer and Bennet, both more rake than modern Indys) while we both have Splitfires on the back which clearly have a much more negative rake than any standard truck (though are still positive if we are talking of which side of the steering axis the axle is).
Standing on the board with the nose against a wall it's very clear to see that the roll axis is only just below the deck (steer the board and watch the nose barely move) while the same experiment at the back and the tail moves several inches.
It seems to us that this setup works amazingly well for slalom. I've improved significantly since replacing my (relatively negative) front Splitfire and sticking it (with a lot of de-wedging) on the back of my son's board. So has he.
Where this gets very confusing is that expensive custom front slalom trucks (Gog, Splitfire, Radikal etc) are all close to negative rake while the offset-the-other-way radical back takes an almost neutral design and offsets it back to a similar rake to a classic Indy/Tracker style but then puts it on the back. How does that make sense?, is this just variations in personal taste?
Personally I would love to try a board with an extreme positve front rake such that the board roll axis was in line with the griptape at the front, paired with a back truck with zero or maybe even a slight negative rake, so that the back roll axis was down at axle height. Failing that, I want to try one of those new adjustable-but-with-a-classic-hanger style Gogs :)
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