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| Pre-1980 Vintage Gear (6027 Posts)
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ACS vs. Bennetts and trophies
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On 12/31/2000
Lansing
wrote in from
(24.218.nnn.nnn)
GBJ's response is right on. As I said, I probably oversimplified the matter, and I admitted up front that my feelings are at least somewhat based on jealousy & sour-grapes (after all, I wouldn't be complaining if I could also afford $7,000 worth of vintage gear!). Also good point about "riding vs. mounting." Certain decks, trucks, or wheels from the '70's & '80's still "hold their own" (i.e. were great then, and are still great to this day) and are worth riding, whereas others were no "magic &*#%ing carpet ride" to begin with, so why would anyone bother to ride one now? Things like the Logan's and the Shogo's are obvious examples: worth a lot for their place in skateboard history & for their "art" (esp. Shogo), but in all honesty pretty crappy rides.
Anyway, I sheepishly withdraw some of my lil' rant...and oh - I guess I should also apologize to everyone making $100,000+. I left high-tech 6 years ago to commit myself & my family to a life of poverty by deciding to be a full-time classical musician...smart move, Einstein.
On a more serious note: the question a couple of people have raised about "why the heck are Bennetts so prized in the first place" is a good one. Hard to say. Again, they were (are) no "magic carpet ride." From strictly personal experience based on owning and skating both "in the day," I just found the Bennetts turned a heck of a lot better than the ACS 500s; even w/ACS baseplates. Unfortunately I can't conduct a "mature, present-day" test, 'cuz I've only skated Bennetts, Gullwings, Trackers, Indy's and Invaders since 1980, and I *just* discovered to my horror this Thanksgiving that my parents threw out my box of old skate gear (including a set of ACS 500s) I had stored in their garage for 20 years.
Maybe someone else can conduct an objective test: run some cones and do some general street skating with the same deck, same wheels, but comparing ACS 500's vs. Bennett Pro's.
Personally, I would love to hear the results - Even knowing they are just one person's opinion.
Lansing
P.S. BTW, thanks for the Lazer tip. Didn't know they also fit the Bennett hangers...
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Ampuls, Bennetts and Collectors (The ABCs of vintage-skateboards), etc.
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On 12/31/2000
GBJ
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
Okay, here we go. So far, I've yet to see anyone suggest, with tongue-in-cheek (of course), sending your broken Bennett baseplates back to Ron Bennett; to take advantage of his "Lifetime Replacement Guarantee", which was offered circa 1977. Actually, I've also not seen anyone suggest Lazer baseplates for Bennett Pro hangers. Until the recent string of posts on this page, I'd never considered replacing Bennett baseplates with ACS'. That particular moment in history was fairly short-lived, and in my area Bennett riders used Lazer baseplates. Of course, at that point in time, the Pig revolution was starting and board widths were headed for the 10" range, making even Bennett Pros too narrow to be practical. Besides, although I rode Bennetts myself, for awhile, I never really found anything spectacular about them. They were tall, lightweight, and quick, but the baseplate problem made them "not worth the effort". I'd really like to find a set of Tracker Halftracks to serve in the role that I might've previously used Bennetts.
Lansing, I read your "Trophy Collectors" rant. I understand your sentiment, but wonder if you realize that it is fundamentally flawed and economically biased against successful individuals. The "bonified skate geezer" in your first example, looking for the beloved board he rode 20-30 years ago, is the same guy as the "ex-skater working at his computer company, with his six-figure salary". I do not have one of those board collections that is like racks and racks of boards (ex: 30 FreeFormers, 20 GrenTecs, 18 Banzais, etc.), but I do have a collection, some of which was purchased off of EBay, and which would be worth, roughly, $5,000-7,000, pieced back out on Ebay. Many of those boards are "originals", ridden by me during their own particular era. Others were either received as gifts or purchased as collectibles, to replace a long lost portion of my former quiver. The "collecting-momentum" in all of this activity has now led me to purchase additional boards, which proudly join the rest of the collection displayed on the walls of my den. (ALL of my slalom quiver, including my Turner, Quicksilver and Fibreflex, remain in use) They may represent a board I had, very much, wanted to own, in its' own time, or they may just be boards that I find interesting. I certainly didn't buy an early Logan Earth Ski, with screwed-on Chicago Trucks and Roller Sport MkIV wheels, to ride it. Who would?!?! Furthermore, not that I understand why Shogo's model became "mas collectible", but who would ever buy a vintage-1979(?) Shogo Dogtown model to ride it?!?! Why would someone even consider doing that? Their wasn't any special, magic-f%*&king-carpet ride from the Shogo. It's not like your life becomes magically enhanced from riding one. It's more that certain board models very much represent "what everyone wanted" at a particular time, and those people with more financial success are infinitely better equipped to wrestle over the remaining versions of those boards. That's how "collectibles" happen. For me, the "holy grail" would be one of the Kryptonic K-Beam Alba models (Steve or Micke, OR BOTH!). I never got one, back in the day. The urge to own one never went away. I'd pay a tidy sum (if I happened to have one at the moment) to own either or both of them, and then I'd hang them on the den wall too. FYI, my "collection" was first exhibited, as such, on the walls of my office, while I was working in the skateboard industry, in 1998. So, where do I fall in your order? Am I a 1, or a 3? Am I both? Neither? Perhaps I'm a budding 2? The thing is, even when it's the budding Internet/Telecommunications tycoon, with the "MOST DESIRABLE COLLECTIBLE SKATEBOARD OF ALL TIME" (whatever that might be) on his penthouse wall; at least it's a skateboard, and not something like a gun, or a rack of Beanie Babies (still in their BlisterPaks). We (skateboarders) are slowly taking over the world. That's a good thing.
Good call on the metal "mystery" deck being an Ampul. That is correct. Sims never offered an aluminum doublekick, and neither Banzai or Holly had a metal "tread" pattern on them. Ampul did knock-off just about everyone in the industry, at one time or another, and usually embarassingly (for Ampul) late on the trends. "Hmmmm.... y'know, if we got ourselves some of that there aliuminium deck plating, we could produce some boards just like them thar Banzai-thingies." This, of course, just as the Banzai decks were being outlawed from ALL of the new skateparks in the great skatepark wave of the 70's, for being the razor-sharpenable foot amputators that they were.
Food for thought... Happy New Millenium!
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There's more
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On 12/31/2000
STEVIEB
wrote in from
(213.122.nnn.nnn)
Now first of e-bay 1106442181 gets you a nice set of bennetts currently at $42 but guess who from ? yep ED'CONTROLLING THE'ECONOMY.The same guy calling a Turner 'RARE' when he has a garage full of them.now im not getting at ED believe it or not if $500 gets you a top spec race ready set up its a cheap sport to be in compared to mountain biking/kayaking or any thing as exciting and long may it last.
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Between the cracks
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On 12/31/2000
STEVIEB
wrote in from
(213.122.nnn.nnn)
Lansing and all,From this distance I can see both sides I'm running an ad in the local paper 'Wanted Tunner summer ski'As I know of at least 2 from the seventies that I raced against I want this board to ride and compare to my fiberflex slalom.However if I had a NOS Shugo Kubo set up with gullwings/wings wheels it would stay on the wall until I was going to the USA to ride some 70s skatepark or backyard pool.Most dogtown decks are a piece of art anyway and if its lasted this long untouched it should be cherished.I think most people want the set up they had or wanted when young because it means someting to them,I dont see the point in just collecting anything.An even more interesting point is whats old school/vintage/newschool. Most old school sites sell 80,s gear,I would think of any thing pre 30x10(non concave) era as old school but to some guys its clay wheels!!!
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Bennetts
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On 12/30/2000
Scabs
wrote in from
(209.86.nnn.nnn)
Pardon my ignorance. But why all the fuss about bennetts? If the product was so inferior, then why was it so cherished? I had Bennettts, ACSs, and quite frankly, I didn`t get excited until the Gullwings came out. I then started skating Tracker Trucks on a pure durability thing.
But what made the Bennetts so much more desired over the ACS`s? They look the same to me (I don`t have each in my hand to compare)
I have 2 sets of ACS 430 metal baseplates and 3 sets of ACS 500s with plastic plates. (I`ll trade only) so if they work for Bennettes..E me
I need Tracker Half Tracks
Brady
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Aluminum decks
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On 12/30/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Banzais were 24 inches long,they may have had some longer boards later on Hollys were like 23,25,27inch decks neither had biult in tread.Ampul could be correct.
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Bennett plates
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On 12/30/2000
Lansing
wrote in from
(24.218.nnn.nnn)
Glen - that's odd, 'cuz I have two pairs of Bennett Pro hangers with ACS baseplates, and they both work like a charm. It was so common 'back in the day' that it was almost a cliche; in fact, at least where I come from the ACS 500's were as highly sought after as the Bennett's, *solely* for their baseplates! And if you've been following eBay for a while, you'll notice that probably 25% to 30% of the Bennetts that come up for auction have ACS baseplates...
Are you certain that you can't get them to fit? The black ACS 500 baseplates fit nicely. The ACS 430's came with two different styles: the silver 'figure-8' shaped baseplates and the black ones you mention. I know for a fact the silver one's fit, 'cuz that's what I have on one pair right now - I can even post a pic if anyone cares.
Try experimenting with different kingpins - If I remember correctly, I was able to use the Bennett kingpin with the ACS 500 baseplates, but had to use the ACS kingpin with the 430 baseplates.
And if you do find a shop willing to make a run of metal baseplates that fit the Bennett Pros perfectly, let us all know!!! I'm absolutely certain there are many of us in the same boat who would buy a set (again, Ed Economy alone has 6 pairs of Bennett Pro hangers with no baseplates).
In the meantime, my offer still stands if anyone wants to trade some banged up ACS 500 baseplates for some pristine 430's...
Lansing
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Bonzi, Holly, Ampul
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On 12/30/2000 Glen
wrote in from
(216.102.nnn.nnn)
If it is one of the metal kickplate boards, it is
probably an Ampul. I used to go by the factory on the way home from Jr High. They used to be on Alameda right here in Burbank.
Ampul was a real wanky company who was pirating everything out there. They had their versions of OJ's, Road Rider 4's, Sims Comps, and Sims Bowlriders. I'm amazed they never got sued. Then again they may have, they did go out of business.
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Bennett plates
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On 12/30/2000 Glen
wrote in from
(216.102.nnn.nnn)
I have tried the ACS 500 plates and the black ACS430 plates on a set of Bennett Pro hangers and they didn't work. The pivot is too steep, and the bolt hole is a bit to close to the pivot. I remember Bennett went from the 3 hole plastic plate to a multi-pattern plastic plate to an aluminum plate that looked like the California Slalom plates.
I have also tried the Lazer plates and they don't work either. Someone know a small foundry that would make up a couple hundred for real cheap?
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RE: Trophy collectors
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On 12/30/2000
tropicalian
wrote in from
(206.107.nnn.nnn)
Lansing,
I definitely see the legitimacy in your rant. I think I may be one of those who "falls through the cracks" so to speak. As a poor struggling college kid (ok, so I'm embellishing *a little* here) I have spent the majority of my book and beer money on boards this past year. While I lack the collection to be a "serious" collector currently, I'm on my way to getting there with nearly 13 boards in my quiver too. The best part about skating for me is the fact that I will ride everyone of my boards, in fact I don't have room for wall hangings in my measly dorm room. If I don't ride a board after I've purchased it...I'll sell it or trade it. Hopefully trade it. But anyways, uh...don't know if my post accomplished too much except state my exception to your 3 categories.
*Jays
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Base Plates
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On 12/30/2000 LowRider
wrote in from
(64.66.nnn.nnn)
Lansing,
Thats me right there. I also want to ride my Bennetts. Im a new that just got my hands on some the good stuff. I thought itll the Bennetts would work nice with my new school Slalom Deck. :) Im I pissing someone off?
LowRider
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Trophy collectors
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On 12/30/2000
Lansing
wrote in from
(24.218.nnn.nnn)
My last post got me riled up about the wall-hanger crowd again, and I can't resist posting a friendly lil' "flame."
My educated guess is that there are basically 3 categories of people buying vintage & old school skate gear:
1) Bonified skate-geezers who want to find that beloved board they used to own 15-30 years ago. They may want to ride it, they may want to save it for posterity...either way, their holy quest is driven by pure old school luv.
2) Serious skate collectors, whose basements or garages look like min-Skatelab museums. They take their collecting seriously.
3) EX-skaters who now make 6 figure salaries at some computer company and haven't ridden in like 10-15 years, but even after buying a new SUV they've got cash to spare so they snatch up all the good stuff from eBay from those of us who would actually RIDE it but can't afford to pay $300 for a FibreFlex deck or $1,500+ for a Shogo Kubo Dogtown. Actually RIDING this stuff is like blasphemy to these yuppie-collectors, who hang all the stuff in the den of their $500,000 house in Silicon Valley.
It's this last category that bugs me. Yes, I know I've probably simplified the matter, and many of you fall between the cracks. And yes, I admit my feelings are based somewhat on jealousy and sour-grapes. But still - It just slays me to think that that special board I've been wanting for years and years yet again slipped through my grasp by a "mere" few hundred dollars, and very well may end up gathering dust in some dot-com'ers garage. My only solice is that the Skate-God karma will come back to haunt them.
Anyway, sorry for the stupid rant.
Carve The Road,
Lansing
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Bennet Pro baseplates
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On 12/30/2000
Lansing
wrote in from
(24.218.nnn.nnn)
Lowrider - Good luck finding replacement Bennett baseplates. Quite simply, they do not exist (except as part of a complete set, and then you'd have to pay $85-$200 on eBay, when all you really need are the baseplates!).
As everyone can tell you, those original plastic Bennett baseplates *always* broke; usually within a week or two.
What everybody did was to mount the Bennett Pro hanger on ACS baseplates, which were metal and never broke.
I have two sets of Bennett Pros: one with ACS 430 baseplates, the other on a mix of ACS 500 and Gullwing Pro baseplates (the Gullwing angle is slightly wrong, though, so I wouldn't recommend it to others...but it's worked fine for 20 years!).
Just yesterday I contacted Ed Economy about this exact situation (for those who don't know, Economy is one of the "O.G." longboarders, and the undisputed KING of vintage & old school gear...like who doesn't drool over just about everything he puts on eBay on a weekly basis for the past 6 months?!).
The ACS 430 baseplates I have are MINT condition, but they are the funky, odd-shaped baseplates with the tiny hole pattern. I want to mount my Bennetts on a brand new vintage deck, & I don't want to redrill for the tiny pattern - So I e-mailed Ed to see if he had any ACS 500 baseplates laying around he would trade or sell me.
Here is his exact response:
"If I made base plates I could be rich !!!!!!!!!! I my self have 6 or so
sets of Bennett trucks with no plates. There is a shop in California who has
new plates so I am told but he wants $ 30.00 a pair. I f you need a # I will
get it for you but I think this is way high ... I tried using them [ACS baseplates] but the angle is wrong. Let me know what you think
Thanks ED !!!!!"
I disagree slightly with his assessment of the ACS 500 baseplates: everybody mounted their Bennetts on the ACS 500 plates, and they worked fine. I checked the angle this morning, and it seems to be nearly perfect...anyway, good enough.
If you want to spend $30 for a pair of baseplates, you could contact Ed to find out what the name of the shop in Cali that makes 'em.
Personally, I'm still looking to trade my pristine ACS 430 baseplates for some ACS 500 baseplates in ANY condition. Any takers? I don't care how scratched or dirty they are, 'cuz I actually want to RIDE them, not mount them on the wall (don't get me started!).
If nobody wants to trade, I'd be willing to buy some...but not for $30!
Lansing
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Banzai/Holly?
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On 12/29/2000 LowRider
wrote in from
(64.66.nnn.nnn)
Herbn,
Its 26 inche long. Like 6 inch wide. Blue in color with its own metal grip. What is it? I looked up banzai on ebay and in the search engine. Came up with some different, then mine.
Thanks
LowRider
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Holly or Banzai
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On 12/29/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
and maybe a couple of mailorders,Ampul? the set up you describe may just have been common,in your area.If it was a factory set up and had Sims wheels it probabely would have been a Sims deck but they didn't make aluminum double kicks.Extra bonus info, Banzai's were 6061 t6 stiffer than the Holleys which were 7075 t3 a more advanced material,the Holleys were a lot thinner and lighter,springier too,due to being 7075.I could probabely tell you the colors they were available in if i thought about it for a sec. hehe:)
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Bennet Pro Base Plates
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On 12/29/2000 LowRider
wrote in from
(64.66.nnn.nnn)
Hey Guys,
I have the Bennett Pro Trucks, but the plastic plates are broke? Do you guys no where I can find a replacement? Isnt it even possible?
LowRider
PS: Do guys remeber the company that made the Aluminium Decks with the double kicktails? It came witht the Bennett trucks. And Sims pure juice? Anyone remeber who made those decks?
Thanks again
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Gonz Deck
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On 12/24/2000
tropicalian
wrote in from
(206.107.nnn.nnn)
I've got a sweet vintage Mark Gonzales Blind deck up for auction...check out the Buy/Sell/Trade forum.
thanks
*Jays
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UK365SITE
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On 12/20/2000
STEVIE
wrote in from
(62.7.nnn.nnn)
Poor customer service is How they ended up with all that stuff anyway !!!
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UK365 website
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On 12/18/2000 Mark
wrote in from
(199.46.nnn.nnn)
I looked at this site months ago, and there was some cool stuff on it I thought I might like to buy.
I sent an e-mail to ask about quantities and prices, and I got a response saying they were "busy"
and to e-mail again later. A week or two later, I sent another e-mail for information (in order to
make a purchase). No response, ever.
Here's a clue:
No customer service = no customer! If these people are too busy to sell me something, they can kiss
my sweet ass! I have found a huge variation in the degree of customer service that skate companies
are capable of. Some don't seem to care if they do any business or not. It's one thing to get someone
to listen and / or respond to a complaint, but if a company won't even sell me something, to hell
with them. Even the local "skate shop" (and I use that term very loosely in describing Fast Forward)
is incapable of getting me a set of Indy 156 trucks. They have 200 sets of 136 and 146 sizes, but
it's like I'm asking for the impossible to get a larger size. What is up with that crap? When I ask
them why they don't have 'the big stuff', they say that they don't stock it because no one's buying it.
How do they know no one will buy something that they have NEVER had in their store?
You people in California, where I am imagining all manner of longboards, wide trucks, and big wheels
are readily available, don't realize how good you've got it. I've never seen a Seismic truck, any
Gravity wheels or Aluminators, the new Fibreflex decks, none of that stuff. I've only seen one pair
of Randal II's other than my own. It's "longboard desolate" here in Big D. Some kind of discrimination
or prejudice or something, and it pisses me off.
sorry for venting,
Mark Colden
Dallas, TX
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UK 365
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On 12/17/2000
Scabs
wrote in from
(209.86.nnn.nnn)
Herbn,
Yeah, I know what you mean. I originally placed an order for a set of Gullwing Pros and Pheonix trucks. They have a credit card shopping cart and I placed the order. They (him?) emailed that they no longer have the Pros. After about 5 emails and 2 weeks, I finally received my order (2 sets of Pheonixs). Shortly after that, the prices were dropped and relaced with "inquire about prices". Funny how they went through all the trouble to delete the prices but seemed to have left the Pros on the page. Maybe they are available but at a higher price???...
I bet if you offered a ridiculously high amount ($$$) for the Strokers, they`d probably miraculously find them...
Brady
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Ebay Sharks
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On 12/16/2000 Rooney
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
Hugh bring that tape.I have some stuff on ebay and have found some "cool collectors" to be highly unethical and attempts of all sorts of manipulation going on .I beleive owners of desirable decks for sale may want to think twice when dealing with these people.
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Strokers
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On 12/16/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
I hit 70's skateboards, as a general description,i didn't know you could get a complete listing , i'm still not sure you can,but i'll take your word on it. When i E mailed them ,kind of doubtful if they ever had the strokers,their reply was a attempt at being nasty,rather than explaining how to use their/his site.They told me ,"you get nothing" ,like they're doing me a favor! well momma ef the limey ickpre,they sent me some attachments which i guess would really only prove that they had pictures of strokers, but they would never sell me them, he he thats funny,like i'm gonna open attachments on an angry e-mail,duh!I not a big fan of internet business and this just one more proof for me.wish them hell oop's i mean well,no i guess i really mean hell:)
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UK365 website
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On 12/16/2000
Scabs
wrote in from
(209.86.nnn.nnn)
Hey Herbn,
If you were talking about the english website UK 365, they do have a few nice items. Go to the site again and just jit the "70`s skateboards, wheels, and trucks" button. Let it load and scroll thru the bottom. Hit NEXT button and scroll agaain. One more time (3 pages of stuff). You`ll see Gullwing trucks, OJ`s, Tunnel Rocks, even an old G$S solid glass kicktail. It used to have prices but now has "email for prices" on it. I guess they saw what things were getting at eBay.
Brady
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Re appearing site
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On 12/16/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
I tried it again,and it came up. it was that site that has the Stroker pictured along with some other old junk. When you go there,it doesn't list inventory,you have to search, which means guess what they might have,all the stuff they had was stuff that i figured they might have,after many unsuccessful searches for stuff i might have put up some bucks to get,they had ACS trucks, goooooolly!
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chips video
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On 12/15/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
That offer of copies goes to all you old timers out there... HR
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