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| Home Made Boards (6188 Posts)
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Home Made Boards |
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herbn's schtuff...
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On 4/7/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
(at least some of it) can be viewed at hughr's longboard site here's a direct link to the first of eleven herbn specific pages so be sure to use the "next page" radio butten at the bottom to forge through.
we're laying up the antithesis of that last build tonight. this one will be 99.9% carbon (20 oz.) w/bamboo for aesthetic/protective surface. everything's cut out and ready to roll. core configuration changes are also in the works. still not gonna use any foam as of yet but almost tripped over a couple of osha marked 5 gallon containers, has to be the a shipment of two part 15 lbs. per cu. in. foam, while stepping out the door this morning. gonna be in fume heaven tonight.
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aluminum snowshoes
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On 4/7/2005
Greg Olsen
wrote in from
Canada
(206.172.nnn.nnn)
Seeing an aluminum snowshoe this winter gave me the idea for a tubing-based deck. The brilliant ones have already thought of that I guess. I would like to see pictures Herbn. I NEVER see pictures from you. Please show us your craft: trucks and decks would be kool. PLeaeeeeease. Pretty please.
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current thoughts
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On 4/7/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
currently i'm leining towards solid (relatively) simple structures. I can't seem to get the poplar thing right,why poplar, it seems like the best wood you can get easily at homedepot,oak is heavy and kind of dead,their maple is not canadien hard maple,poplar seems kind of light ,though none of the boards i've made from poplar were particularly light. It seem like if you made a board thin enough and light enough poplar might be very likely to snap very suddenly,anybody have success with it? I'm liening towards another internet search for ash,i just remembered i used "anchor hardwoods"(i think) last time,you have to tell them you need the surfaces planed ,i don't have a surface plainer(but i have access now)but a nice thick piece of ash,cut it into something like 7/16 to 9/16" slices,depending on flex then a bit of glass, real simple some sort of pocket mounting, i don't like drop through.
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spaceframe
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On 4/7/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i built a tubular standup skate frame a while back. I used aluminum,just two main tubes. It has all types of plates and ribbing out from the maintubes to bolt down three pieces of 1/4 inch birch a middle piece and two sides, for adjustable concave both for angle (the sides) and depth(the middle piece) there's a couple of things i wasn't to happy with, truck clearence,to the frame,i could flip around some of the brackets for the trucks,and get some more clearenc, i also have to make two more bumper ends to make , i think this project is four years old , it has a ton of work in it,dozens of hours, maybe a hundred. I'm on an ebay kick , how could i possibly get even close to fair money for this? it looks like a wing the sides(concaves)look like aerolons,ehh probabely not.
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Spelling
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On 4/6/2005 Bad speller
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
That should be satisfied . Thank you . Won't happen again ...FL
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chassis
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On 4/6/2005
FL
wrote in from
United States
(65.249.nnn.nnn)
I have been building tubular chrome-moly [3/4" , .035 wall ] twin spar chassis for going 12 to 25 mph [sure] and have been satified with the materials light weight , durability and torsional rigidity . Any other tinkerers out there working with tubing ? ...FL
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no more
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On 4/6/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...crushed like a paper cup.
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more or less...
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On 4/5/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
the latest creation emerging from the fabrication facility seems to approach the ultimate exercise in minimalism as far as deck designing goes.
i wont divulge the details of what is contained or how it is assembled in this abstraction from the norm (unless you can figure out where an organic cyanide fits in the picture) but i can reveal what definitely isn't...
...carbon is nonexistent, and foam has been totally eliminated from this particular build.
i wasn't able to predict the flexibility as would be true with any new construction but where i usually attempted to err on the stiff side i was hoping not to go that route this time. without having put my full weight of 180 lbs. on the deck i'm pretty sure i've accompished that much. a good guess would place this board comfortably within the weight range of a 80 lbs. to 95 lbs. rider (Dave). but sad to say the only the only 90 lbs. this deck is gonna feel is when i put the other foot on the ground. got to give it some time to reach full cure because this is bordering on the edge of the limitations of this structure's capabilities... with little doubt no less.
the feeling when handling this is similar to that of a model aeroplane or glider because there is some give with just a bit of effort. don't get me wrong, the deck is rigid at most points of normal contact though it would be mindful to spread the load so as to not distress any small area not intended to take that kind of pressure. definitely not your everyday riding stick. but quite light... and surprisingly so. no twist whatsoever. sturdy along the edge of the concave but a little precarious at the transitions. the kicktail seems quite beefy as well. one thing this deck would never survive is a rock'n roll.
the battery of test applied to decks usual seems to always include a nose/tail or side bash from about waist high but if i tried to do that with this board i think it would explode. kinda like to see that actually... good thing this is totally replicable and tweaks other than overall shape changes can be relatively easily to apply.
yes, i think that this board is destined to live a full (though rather short) life cycle. it seems like the best prospect to be taken to failure. this way structural systems can be analyzed under a controlled atmosphere where at some point the cyanide will probably be released.
or maybe i can give it to a friend who weighs a lot less so that it can be enjoyed for eternity...
...sorry dave, not this time. (heheheh)
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Shapeshifer'sSand Castle
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On 4/4/2005 Dave G
wrote in from
United States
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
You've built your castle...Now, live in it! (I'll be in the cellar, if you need me)
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as we play...
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On 4/4/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
...in the sandbox of the imagination, thoughts of moisture issues welled up in my mind (ok i asked for that). the solution for which could be to hermetically seal the contents of the layup from the elements of its subteranian environment while providing for a vent tube out to the surface. a vent tube should be provided for whether or not one decides to use hot rocks as this would dispose of excess air which could compromise the build.
hmmmm.... now where did i put that pail?
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sandboxing
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On 4/4/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
sorry to lose such valuable credibility by trying to suggest an economical solution for someone who may not have the resources or knowhow to execute a complicated process like vacuum bagging. but thank you for confirming my suspicion that a mold can be had from earth (sand in this case) alone.
i really can't bare shortsightedness so i'm gonna step this up a bit farther. this is something which i may try at a later time but for right now let's just say i'm busy. yes, this does indicate that i've never done this before but i just wanted to throw it out there for anyone who wants an alternative (ie: less expensive, non-technical) approach with working composites. if you have a problem with that, go away. realize that this would be experimental so if you are not ready to try something unusual or already have access to the necessary resources to employ the standard assembly practices, this is not for you. (how's that for a disclaimer)
first lets take the example i set forth earlier: that of digging a hole in the ground and using this as the definition for your mould. when substituting sand it is important to apply water or it wouldn't hold its shape (most importantly this also adds weight). now instead of using a car and jacks on top of all this lets imagine using bags of wet sand (you can leave most of it in the bags but it might be good to fill in around it for added leverage and weight. this should provide for everything that would comprise a press/mould needed for a basic layup as long as the target materials are kept isolated from the earth/sand etc. this even provides what a vacuum bag would offer the amount of pressure would depend on the volume of sand/water or earth used (rocks, marbles, heck manure would work also).
so there you have it an imaginary solution to a real world issue. but we're not done thinking yet...
temperatures can be an issue if you do not perform this in a sunny area or in an area of volcanic activity but heat generated from the decomposition of manure can have its advantages here. you see, water evaporating from the sand or just the natural thermal insulative properties of terra firma may not always provide the adequate environment for the composite to kick off or cure. so why not spark up the grill and cook up some rocks then strategically bury these above and below the layup (carefully keeping them a few inches distance from anything combustible) in order to maintain the core temp. that's how us natives been roasting pigs for centuries. so what do you think we would if this were accomplished? can you say poor man's autoclave?
once one understands that the manufacturing process should only differ in scale whether we are talking about aeroplanes, boats, snowboards, or just the humble skateboard then just a bit of creative ingenuity needs to be applied to enable one to accomplish pretty much anything by the most economical means means (within reason of course).
but since you are asking someone how to do something that's already been done or if you are looking for something to do with what you got...
...there's lots of places to go for that.
now if i was worried about any credibility issues i wouldn't be doing things you couldn't imagine with stuff you probably never heard of. i'm just happy playin' in my sandbox.
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grain direction
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On 4/4/2005
Fitz
wrote in from
Australia
(203.164.nnn.nnn)
Yeah Herb, I did bear that in mind and can actually source some endgrain balsa from a guy in my area who imports 150mm x 100mm x 2400mm long Balsa from indo to make surfboards. I was turned off by the idea of piecing together segments along the length of the board. Wanted to try and maintain long-grain along the board first. It's still an option though down the track sometime. See how this goes first. The stips I got were cheap from the hardware shop and no exta cutting or dressing required. Pocket idea sounds alright. I will be using spacers, oversize washers and high tensile button head screws for the hardware rather than conventional c.sink screws. Too many bills this week. Will keep you posted when I get active.
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balsa
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On 4/3/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i think "balsa strips" laid down long grain are pretty soft and they may work ok(question for duane)but they dont optimize compression strength between the glass/carbon skins.
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strips of balsa
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On 4/3/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i may be reading a bit to deep between your line but, "strips" sound like you bought just regular balsa,with a regular grain, like a strip of maple. With balsa,duane should chime in here, you want a vertical grain. What exactly does this mean?you ask ,perhaps. I bought my balsa a big chunk,a 2x4 approximately. I slice off pieces that are as thick as the pockets i routed into my birch ply-.015 or so then when glass goes into the pocket before the balsa chunks that are shaped to fill the pocket,actually the pocket is shaped to fit the balsa,and epoxy fills any gaps and harden,things snug up nicely. Future boards will involve much larger amounts of the balsa stuff.
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testing
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On 4/3/2005
Fitz
wrote in from
Australia
(203.164.nnn.nnn)
Yeah good stuff shapeshifter. Thats more like it. I just gotta say, it did you no cred. when you suggested the whole car wheel thing in the ground without tryin it first. I have actually heard a similar method before used by old skool fibreglass boat builders. Diggin out a cavity in the ground then smoothing over with sand. Layin down the resin with glass and building hulls in 1 go. No pressure involved though.
I've got 2 strips of balsa 12mm x 100mm x 1000mm . Butt them with a stringer and use carbon top and bottom. Sandwich with ply and possibly carbon on bottom.
It sounds like overkill with the carbon and I may end up just using one layer on the bottom. Not really interested in camber or cave just yet.
Its funny you say you used birch Herb 'cause the ply I'm about to use is 1.2mm aircraft ply. Which I since found out is Finnish birch microply. It may be strong enough. Each layer veneer roll-cut at about 0.4mm thick. Damn expensive lil test for me but I have faith the carbon will support the core. Gotta get more resin and carbon and when it's all done I'll try and post a few lil photos of b4 and after. Crunch time takes on a whole new meaning when you build boards.
I'm counting on success this time.
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blasa filled birch ply
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On 4/3/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
i've got one done, it's not all that light but pretty strong,testing soon.
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made...
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On 4/2/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
5 boards since september. even have a few unfinished ones that will never get done (because of concept changes), one of these was tested at pump station. all were vacuum bagged but a pneumatic press is in our future.
plan to have the latest deck done on monday. this one is taking me about a week to finish.
also built and raced my trucks, and boards, and even a set of wheels all over the slalom world of late.
if that isn't putting theory to the test. i don't know what is.
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theories
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On 4/2/2005
Fitz
wrote in from
Australia
(203.164.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for the opinion/lecture shapeshifter but it wasn't really what I'm after. I thought someone may actually have proof over theory. Thinking is all good and well but personally I wouldn't go advising anything until I've tried and tested for myself. Good ideas are a plenty, but good ideas that actually work are what count in my books.
Question, have you actually tried all these methods you suggest?
Herbn, you still tune in on this site man? What experience have you had with carbon balsa ply decks?
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shapeshifter
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On 4/2/2005 bean-a-reano
wrote in from
United States
(12.202.nnn.nnn)
Thanks shifter. That helps alot. I gues I'll keep researching and thinking. I'll let ya know how it turns out.
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cool beans
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On 4/2/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
sometimes i can't understand... myself.
you don't need to use glass. but if you do you may want to glass it after you have your deck cambred in the press. at that point you will not need to use the type of press you are using to apply the glass and let it cure on the surface. if you aren't familiar with vacuum bagging just lay it up on top of it all. for added structural stability you may even want to taper down from the middle to the edges. this removes some of the torsional twist and gives structure to the glass but tapering without glassing is not always advisable. here's an idea for a press. dig a hole in the ground that conforms to your cambre and put a board (support) on both sides of the layup. place the assembly into the hole and drive a car's rear wheel over the whole thing. now put a couple of jacks on either side of the wheel of the car (this is why the rear wheel was indicated) to compress the areas not covered by the wheel. just a thought cause i've never actually done this myself but i think that this method would be the simplest way to have absolute control over the position of the high point of a camber than the method previously suggested.
locating the carbon or glass (cloth) farther away from the center of the core provides the most advantage on a layup. if plys are added over the cloth, it should be considered as a more aesthetic or for a more protective purpose. the carbon or glass absorbs more resin than is actually needed when properly wetted out this is where vacuum bagging to soak up the exess resin makes more sense (though not absolutely necessary). plys on either side of the carbon or glass doesn't provide for this so if one vacuum bags it would be necessary to have the cloth on the outside of the layup while in the bag then only adding the outer plys at a later time. if one were not using the vacuum bagging method then laying it up altogether would suffice. one would need to use the vacuum method in order to execute a deck with tapered edges otherwise a mold would have to be made to conform to the contour of the deck.
now here's the biggie. for all of you who do use glass or carbon the hardest part would arguably be the method of wetting out the cloth. cnova devised the best way we know for doing this but i'll think i'll tell you anyway. by putting the cloth and a glob of resin between two layers of plastic you can drive a wave of resin into the weave by taking 2" tube and squeegeeing it front to back and side to side on the outside of said plastic. you can really get the resin through and through and drive the excess out the edges of the cloth leaving it on the plastic. handling the wetted out cloth can be tough but if you take everything plastic and all and lay place it on the layup you can remove the plastic like you would a bandaid. now wasn't that easy?
building a board should start way before you have the materials. developing the process and understanding the methodology is critical to any build. think things through then rethink them through again and again so that when you're in the middle of it all you have less issues to contend with... so start thinking.
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balsa carbon boards
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On 4/2/2005 Fitz
wrote in from
Australia
(203.164.nnn.nnn)
I remember seeing a post ages ago about a dude layin up a board from:
ply
carbon
balsa
carbon
ply
in that order. Ive got a crappy dial up connection and unfortunately don't have a whole lotta time on my hands to go searchin through the archives. If anyone who knows if it actually worked I'd really appreciate any feedback (not just opinion). I'm a big supporter for experience over theory so I'm going to have a go for myself. I'm lookin at makin a board about 900mm long and hanger axles about 600mm apart.
One things for sure though I'm going to seriously consider a layer of carbon on the very bottom for max support. I've tried using 4 glass layers between 5 layers of 3mm ply pressed totally flat just as a tester before bothering with 'cave or camber. Within 1 day of riding I found out the hard way that unless there's one on the very bottom it's a waste of time havin any at all. Hence my broken fibreglass/ply board. The hanger axles were 990mm apart so I did set the bar pretty high for a first run test. I did have a whole lotta fun though, carvin up my local before the heartbreaking crack leaving the bottom of the board to drag along the ground.
Keep up the feed back guys. I always enjoy droppin in everynow and then and findin out what others are up to.
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slalom
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On 4/1/2005 bean-a-reano
wrote in from
United States
(12.202.nnn.nnn)
herbn - I have NO idea what shapeshifter was talking about. I am not trying to make a perfect board, Veneers are very hard to come by around here. I am going to glue it, press it with clamps, suspend it horozonially and put some weight in the middle. The toothless method. All I need to know is doI need to use glass? And if I do, do I apply it before or after i start pressing. Thanks
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drop thru rII
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On 4/1/2005 Brock
wrote in from
Canada
(24.64.nnn.nnn)
i am making a board and its about 18mm thick and i was wondering can u drop thru rii's and if u can it sorta looks like the hanger will hit the wood so do u jsut cut some wood away. how does it affect the ride. Thanks
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mentalizing
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On 4/1/2005 herbn
wrote in from
United States
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i've used this site to re think projects, typing just draws out and perhaps clarifies things, if only for me, probabely . My post are perhaps a bit less,,,poetic.
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don't be deluded...
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On 4/1/2005 shapeshifter
wrote in from
United States
(198.160.nnn.nnn)
though it may seem like a lot of mental masturbation - this project actually exists. it would be a simple matter to tell you how i go about materializing these somewhat theoretical concepts but that would be too easy. would rather you think about it 'cause you'd laugh if you'd realize how simple the solution actually is.
btw, i'm like two thirds of the way through this build and there's light at the end of the tunnel (just hope it isn't a train).
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