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| Q&A: Michael Brooke - Publisher, Concrete Wave Magazine (7141 Posts)
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Yeah, who needs the law anyway?
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On 6/14/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
By the way,
According to Marion, "One of the local downtown churches, one whose membership is older, wealthy, and influential in the community have had serious issues with damage to their front steps, railing, and other areas that have resulted in at least one injury (woman falling slipping on skate wax)"
Does anyone care that someone got HURT? Or is it all about the poor little groms whose needs outweigh all other concerns? How many more people need to get hurt because a hand rail is ripped from a wall or a step is chiseled away?
Yeah, I said bust 'em and I meant it. They know it's wrong and they are snickering all the way home they got away with it. A busted up old lady? Wow, someone is probably pissed they didn't get a picture.
Oh, don't arrest them for trespassing and damaging private property. No, that's not the way. Let's wait until they are 25 and all they have is a toothbrush and a pair of shoes they have to protect while doing 3-5 in "C" Block. Yeah. That'll be a good time for 'em to learn.
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oye
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On 6/14/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(204.78.nnn.nnn)
ok....
a) nobody suggested Marion beats somebodies ass
b) WT is allowed his opinion....just as you are...we all know what opinons are like
c) Barging and the dark ages...i said it "contributed", not that it was the sole reason...and yes, it did contribute.
"Skateboarding is not a crime" came from somewhere.
d)I didnt skate in the 90s. I did other things. I guess i'm just not hardcore ...then again, that's just your opinion.....see (b)
e) good point about the skatepark...Not about building one, everybody knows that...but about building one right...build a bad park, or worse yet, a bad wood park that goes unmaintained and the next thing you know, nobody uses the park because it's jacked, and now skateboarding is banned from the streets "because the kids should be in the park"
that's a scene thats been repeated over and over again
and by the way, just because a persons been around for a long time DOES give that person more insight...that's part of the package in getting older...it's as true for 40 year old skaters as it is for 80 year old war vets....if you've walked the earth longer, you've seen more....that's just the way it works.
OK....i'm moving on
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Yeah arrest those kids!!?!?!
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On 6/14/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(65.19.nnn.nnn)
I can't believe that somehow someone would say that gettting the kids arrested is the answer. I have another possible solution to this problem. Marion you need to make contact with these kids and explain, nicely, the situation. Threatening or being menacing is not going ot help. Maybe what you guys need to try and do is get a park built. Yes a park. And most importantly a well designed park that meets the needs of your community. Chances are a park that is all bowls is not going to help your situation. Two resources you could check out are the skateboarding and the law forum. The other is skatersforpublicskateparks.com. If you could get these kids involved in the process they could work for a solution with you. Maybe they need someone to show them support. maybe you can help them and mentor them and they would have aplace of their own.
And barging is not the cause of skateboardings waning popularity in the 90's. That is pretty ignorant in my opinion. And that is not the first time this happened. in the 80's skating took some serious blows when the skatepark era ended. Barging is closely linked to the rebirth of skatepark in the 90's. Yep the 90's spawned the rebirth. One of the main catalysts of this was the burnside project. This was an outlaw park built by kids sick of not having a place to ride. It is pretty silly to say all the knowledge is held by oldschoolers. If you did not skate in the 90's you are not as dedicated as you claim to be. Once again, in my opinion.
And stop with this lifestyle crap. Skating is skating, not a lifestyle. Being a drug addict is a lifestyle.
Just because you started skating in the 70'2 or 60's does not give any special insight. And trying to act like you are somehow better than the kids today just makes you look uptight and pompous.
But seriously Marion, maybe you need to use your clout in the community to help get a park built that meets the needs of the community. It is way more work than kicking a kids ass(like you would really do that at 43, assaulting a minor is a felony) and it helps to build the stoke. You definately need to make some connections in the younger crowd and try to help them. That is the best approach in my opinion.
Arresting kids for tresspassing will not stop them. the only thing that will stop these kids is a better spot. They will always be looking for better spots. Try and get a spot built that is better than what the city has to offer. And this won't stop it completely. Kids will get bored and then back to the streets. It will help to reduce the damage though.
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the recipe for chaos...
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On 6/14/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(67.70.nnn.nnn)
things seem totally bi polar right now...skateboarding covers so many things...
Forty years ago or so, cities and towns across America banned skateboarding. Larry Stevenson told me he went from getting $75,000 in orders PER DAY (remember this is 1960's money!) to CANCELLATIONS.
My take on things is that we are entering a period of GREAT confusion...
the mags advertise lifestyle products and shoes and the shops make a lot of money from the lifestyle...but some of the very corporations that promote skateboard lifestyle are 100% different than skate and destroy...they are about MAKE MONEY.
Add to this the soccer moms have become skate moms...
The lifers who bemoan the commercialization...
The entry of longboarders/slalom skaters
The return of older skaters
The emergence of female skaters
The race to manufacture product in China
The tattoos, the piercings, the punk rock, the booze, the drugs, the sex and the violence...
The born again skaters, the parents who ride with their kids...
it's an incredibly complicated stew...
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so true
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On 6/14/2006
buddy rawls
wrote in from
United States
(128.158.nnn.nnn)
Bara said "Then "skate and destroy" or whatever gained ground and folks started skating in the public areas. And it helped send Skateboarding straight into the dark ages for over a decade....."
The 80's skaters that started out in this environment do not see it. They view it as, look what the establishment did to us. The 70's skaters see it as, it's no wonder why things turned out like they did. the 80's guys see the effects, the 70's guys saw the causes and effects. This is also highly indicative of when it became a lifestyle as opposed to an activity.
Skateboard was not always against the law. Thats an 80's thing too. breaking and entering, or vadalism is against the law. skateboarding was not. ITs when skateboarding became breaking/entering/vandalism that it became against the law.
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Blaming someone . . . just anyone!
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On 6/14/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Of course, what everyone is forgetting is one of these belligerent little ass#@!s will wax the church steps and then fall, breaking his leg, cracking his skull and end up in a vegetative coma.
Then his parents will find a lawyer to SUE THE CHURCH! After all, why wasn't that set of steps fenced off, surrounded by barbed wire, protected by Rottweilers and covered in signs saying "DO NOT SKATE!"
My goodness, how negligent can one church possibly be?
Seriously, Marion, here's my take: skateboarding is not a crime, but trespassing is. The Town Of Statesville needs to actively PROSECUTE TRESPASSERS, not skateboarders. Whether they are on a skate, a bike or something with a motor makes no difference. Yank the punks by the scruff of the neck, haul them into Juvey and charge them with trespassing. Then fine their parents $2000 per offense.
Trust me, the vandalism and trespassing will disappear when mommy and daddy start footing the bill for Junior's good time.
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true
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On 6/14/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(204.78.nnn.nnn)
...it may be selective memory.....time will do that....plus i can only say what happened with us, in my little corner of the world (which isnt too far from Flounders)...it was a big country then.
As for "golden age", ...I'm just talking about the times before the 90's...when skateboarding nearly disappeared from the map...and many of us disappeared with it....
But you cant deny....barging is what nearly killed it the first time....difference was, back then there werent a slew of older skaters to try to handle the situation.....this time around there are...
If marion wasnt a bad ass, shaved head, tattood, friggin linebacker, i'd say he wouldnt have a chance......
however........
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It has....
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On 6/14/2006
Steve c
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
It did not say it has to happen, I said it is going to happen. And I did say it has always happened. How do you think the Burnside project got started. Barging. Straight up. To say the barging mentality used to be different back in the day is selective memory in my opinion. This is not new at all. Look around. Seriously, just because you kept thing on the down low does not mean that is how it used to be for everyone. People have been doing this for years and years. Skateboarding is against the law, pretty much always has. And saying the past was the "golden age" is kind of stupid I think. It has always been the golden age. Skateboarding is fun. It is fun in different ways to different people. If you have ever broke the law to skate you are guilty of barging. How are your actions any different than the kids today? It is not. You may think that you were somehow more responsible than kids today but if you ever skated a pool you broke two laws: tresspassing and destruction of property. How is this any different than kids waxing and skating a street spot? Seriously, what is the difference?
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what a crock of sh*t
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On 6/14/2006 bara
wrote in from
United States
(204.78.nnn.nnn)
Skate and Destroy......friggin yank me.........you can agree with that line of mentality, or disagree...to say it HAS to happen is bullsh*t....to say it's ALWAYS happened is bullsh*t....face it, back in the "golden age" it was more like Flounder and Steve C said, we kept it out of the public eye....for lots of reasons, but allot of it was because we knew if we were running up and down in a crowd, eventually we'd get shut down, then the cops would make our spot part of their "regular rotation" and it'd be history....so we were smarter than that....Then "skate and destroy" or whatever gained ground and folks started skating in the public areas.
And it helped send Skateboarding straight into the dark ages for over a decade.....let it go and it'll get sent there again...think i'm kidding?....let a few skaters pi$$ off the city government......that's all it takes....this isnt a particularly "tolerant" time we're living it....
Marion, it's impressive your town looked to your crew for help....good luck in convincing the street skaters that they wont know what they had until it's gone
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Skate and Destroy
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On 6/14/2006 Flounder
wrote in from
United States
(136.2.nnn.nnn)
One more thing I forgot. I have seen Marion in person, and all these kids would need is a talking too from him.
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Good Stuff
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On 6/14/2006
MC Hammer Head- Downhillbillies.org
wrote in from
United States
(166.82.nnn.nnn)
Steve C: Didn't take it that way. This is good stuff....and I totally agree...its part of the deal. The key for us here though is not letting it completely take away what we have going on. If I were a 15 year old street skater (no, I am a 43 old downhiller) I would want to skate the particular spot in question as well, no doubt about it. However, I do think like Flounder in the fact that if I felt that others were abusing a situation to the point that the whole house of cards could come down as a total band on skateboarding downtown (which we had for several years...and they enforced the heck out it with tickets and board confiscations) I would do some self policing. Of course when I was 15 I was straight up thug, yo....(well, actually poor white mill hill trash but you get the picture).
Bud, I agree with you as well. The key for us, like it or not, is that the DHB is now seen as a legitimate skateboarding organization with some potential influence locally and that city officials are at least giving us a shot before going full on gustapo on this bunch. Bud, email me your phone number and I will give you a shout.
Marion Karr
DHB WORLD HEADQUARTERS
Skatesville, North Carolina
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Skate and Destroy
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On 6/14/2006
Flounder
wrote in from
United States
(136.2.nnn.nnn)
I always thought Skate and Destroy was more of an attitude one had toward the actual act of skateboarding. I never thought of it as destroying skate spots, and f%^*ing up your spot. When I was younger we had a killer street skating scene going on at this school. We never destroyed the place, and we kept it clean. Anyone who tried to come in and mess things up for us would first get a talking to, and second get a beating if they didn't cooperate. We knew we had a good thing going so we showed a little respect to the people who let us skate. We didn't destroy the place but we still destroyed.
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Marion
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On 6/14/2006
Bud
wrote in from
United States
(68.57.nnn.nnn)
Marion, Steve C is absolutely right. If there is a good spot to be skated, then, it will be skated. If it's pseudo-legal to skate it, well, great. If it's illegal, it'll be skated nonetheless. If you put up a "No Skateboarding" sign, it will be stolen, and the spot will be skated. If it's a bust in the daytime, then it will be skated at night. If it's a bust at night, the skaters will buy a scanner, and skate it when the cops are busy elsewhere. If the property owner installs cameras, skaters will spray paint the lens, or otherwise disable the camera- then, skate the spot. If they hire security, either the guard will get his ass severly kicked, or the spot will be skated between rounds. There may be bribery involved- security guards oftentimes make minimum wage- but, it will ultimately be skated. Homeless people can also be bribed to serve as lookouts while you skate (Homelessness being a crime, as well). If the spot is a real hassle, even after all of this, remember: If the obstacle is movable, then, the spot can always be stolen outright, and moved somewhere more desirable. I know all of this, and more, because at one time or another, I have done every single one of these things. You simply cannot ever, ever, ever stop a determined, thinking, creative skateboarder from doing what he loves most. Which is, of course, skateboarding.
That said, I do have a couple of ideas to share with ya. Holla at me, brothaman.
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Bikes and blades
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On 6/13/2006
Steve C.
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
Another thing to consider is whether bikes and blades play into this equation. These guys wax and damage just like street skaters. So your problem my be more complex than you think.
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I agree
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On 6/13/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
Don't take my last post the wrong way. I am simply stating the facts. I am in no way endorsing the mentality. It is a progression, a way of thinking. These kids are carrying the torch of many generations. Of course their way of doing things has become more extreme. It is evolving, changing. It is a beast that cannot be controlled. Dude, I am a 35 year old skater. I am not saying that waxing stuff in the middle of town is smart or good for relations with people who don't skate. I am simply saying I personally think it is part of the natural progression of skateboarding. I don't think you can change it. Just my opinion.
I feel for your situation, I really do. It is hard to reconcile the problems you are having. I just think the more you try to control something like this, the more out of control it becomes. And I don't think these people do this because of some kind of hype. The only hype the feel is their own stoke to skate hard. This is not a new problem. I was getting hassled and tickets way back in 84 for street skating. Kids today are doing the same thing. Nothing has really changed. For the last 25 or so years this has been going on and I don't think it is going to change.
Please remember, I am not endorsing this whole thing. I am simply putting forth my 2 cents on this. I am not trying to act all core. I am a fat, washed up old bastard. But this is not a new thing. Maybe in your area but not really a new thing.
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Steve C's comments
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On 6/13/2006
MC Hammer Head- Downhillbillies.org
wrote in from
United States
(166.82.nnn.nnn)
Steve C,
I agree with you that this kind of activity has always been a part of skating and it always will, however, I also remembered a time when it seem to me, maybe I am just living with selective memory from all of the hits to the head both with a helmet and before I was smart, that barging was done when it was covert and with stealth (As you pointed out so well). We also tried our best to make a spot last by not tearing it all to heck, leaving trash about, or by calling undue attention to our activities. Dude, waxing a slate step on the front of a super large downtown church right on Main Street to me is just over the top.
After talking with some of the crew today our focus is not become the "arm of the law" but to educate skaters to think a little bit before just blowing the scene for everyone else. I guess this is possibly a waste of energy but the converse of the matter is to sit back and watch our privilage (not our RIGHT) to skate downtown be revoked due to the actions of a small group of irresponsible skaters who see buy into the hype that "skate and destroy" is the way to be. Skate it. Destroy it. Move on to the next spot. Skate it. Destroy It. Repeat. Well, I don't care what you say, thats stupid in my opinion and it is a reflection of this Microwave society we live in that demands immediate and quick gratification and requires the attention span of a gnat.
Marion Karr
DHB WORLD HEADQUARTERS
Skatesville, North Carolina
"Skating and Creating and Not Hating One Hillbilly At A Time!"
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Skate and....Skate
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On 6/13/2006
Steve C
wrote in from
United States
(168.103.nnn.nnn)
One thing about modern street skating to ponder.....
Is it that much different than people barging backyard pools. Not really. In fact the street skating of today in many ways much more ballsy than pool skating. My point being these kids are not being covert. They are truly barging in many cases. I ain't saying it is right but that is the truth. Barging spots has always been a part of skating. Always will. Skating will never exist solely in captivity. What I mean by captivity is parks and legal spots. Kid(and adults) are gonna barge spots. If you think otherwise you are very foolish. There will always be spots that have to be skated. Curbs to be waxed. Wallrides that have to be done. This is part of the soul of skateboarding. It cannot be contained. It is an essential part of skateboarding.
Unless cities start building really sick parks this will not change. And cities have to build a multitude of parks. Various sizes, large, medium, small, tiny, pinner. They would need to build them in all parts of town. Until that happens, skating will remain the beast it has always been. People are gonna barge. Especially places that are good spots.
And remember, this is not because the big mags portray things the way they do. The barging mentality has been around since the dawn of the modern age of skating. Remember, guys like Mark Gonzoles and Natas Kaupas did not start do rails because they saw it in a magazine. Skateboarding is not something that developed in captivity. It thrives in the urban landscape. And it always will. There is no way to control it. Even if all the mags started pumping up slalom and longboarding there would still be a street barging underground, probably just as strong as it is today. You can't tame the beast. You can't cage it. You just can't.
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skate and destroy vs.
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On 6/13/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.95.nnn.nnn)
skate and create?
skate and annoy?
skate and procreate?
skate and ....well, you get the idea
Marion, I think it's pretty cool you are involved in something like this. This is a very difficult issue...and I would welcome everyone's comments...
The "skate and destroy" mentality is still a huge part of skateboarding...hell, I got the new Thrasher book today, and let me tell ya, there is a HUGE LEGACY there...huge...
but, with bigger corporations coming on board over the last decade, skateboarding has wrestled mightily with things...
thoughts?
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Another Surreal Moment From Skatesville, North Carolina
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On 6/13/2006
MC Hammer Head- Downhillbillies.org
wrote in from
United States
(166.82.nnn.nnn)
I just got a phone call from the Chief of Police of Statesville today. Did he call to complain about our group skating downtown? No. Did he call to warn us to stop putting cones in the road out at Camperworld? No. Was he calling to say that downtown merchants to have us banned from their store area? Nope.
He called to ask for the DHB's help!!! He asked if we could put together a group to spread the word with the street skaters of the town to talk about being responsible with private property issues. One of the local downtown churches, one whose membership is older, wealthy, and influential in the community have had serious issues with damage to their front steps, railing, and other areas that have resulted in at least one injury (woman falling slipping on skate wax) and other near misses.
Statesville, North Carolina currently allows skating downtown from 6 pm until 7am weekdays and all day on Sunday but this is now in jepordy. The Chief has given us a week to put together a plan to communicate the situation to the skaters. After that the next step will be an aggressive ticketing/fining campaign, and then ultimately a ban.
The DHB's are currently involved in two skatepark projects locally, one in Statesville, and the other in an adjacent town, Troutman. We plan to put together a town meeting and invite skaters, their parents, and interested (supportive) parties to discuss these two projects along with protecting the privilage of skating downtown through responsible self policing within the skate community.
We have the most supportive skateboard friendly town I have ever lived in! I want to keep it that way.
If you have been through such a process, either good or bad, please email me at karr@downhillbillies.org with your suggestions on how to put this type of program together and what we need to do to make it the most successful. Email would be appreciated so that I can print them and/or forwarded them to the DHB leadership.)
I know that the "skate and destroy" mentality is still prevailant but somehow we have to teach skaters to act more responsibly. And before some of you jump on my case for being too "adult" about this, or not HaRDCORE,or not espousing "screw the Man", or holding my fist in the air screaming "Skateboarding is NOT A CRIME", etc., etc., etc. ask yourself when have you been given an opportunity to rectify a potential powder keg before it blew up and ruined a scene for all skaters in that community? The leaders of our town, the Police Chief, the Mayor, and the City Council, all respect the DHB enough to give us an opportunity to get involved rather than just going into a full crackdown mode. That respect demands we get involved.
Thank you in advance for your help,
Marion Karr
DHB WORLD HEADQUARTERS
Skatesville, North Carolina
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Uh Oh, Wes...now my WIFE knows!
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On 6/13/2006
Michael Brooke
wrote in from
Canada
(65.94.nnn.nnn)
Wes,
I told you to keep that a SECRET!
see what you've done!
you know, what goes on in Tijuana...is supposed to STAY in TJ.
I had to explain it was just "research" for my new book
HA!
good that he contacted you
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Inclusion
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On 6/13/2006
Bud
wrote in from
United States
(68.57.nnn.nnn)
Sometimes, I really wonder how or why Mike comes up with these deep, probing, philosophical questions. Maybe it's because he's way smarter than I am...?
I thought about this long and hard tonight, as it really sparked my curiosity. I don't really think about these sorts of things very much, I guess.
First, I'd have to define "My Scene". It is comprised of one guy: Me. Naturally, I think I'm a pretty okay joe, so I feel pretty included, thank you very much.
However, insofar as "THE Scene"- ie, the scene around me goes... no, I pretty much have no clue what's going on in Indianapolis, or Indiana for that matter. Why? Well, it's a very stale scene- and, I don't relate to stale very well. So, I guess I simply removed myself from it, and built my own little world instead. One that I do not like to share very much of with too many other people.
It wasn't too long ago that I was the Uber-Scenester. I used to be a hell of a lot more social. I used to do nice things for other people, try to drop some knowledge on them from time to time, add something to the world around me. I think that, as I age, other people's opinions of me matter less and less, and I am afflicted with a more and more pessimistic view of humanity, in general. Maybe that's another reason for my self-imposed exile.
But, I think, the biggest reason for it is that skateboarding, the scene, as well as skateboarding, the sport, has changed so much over the years. I don't know about you, but I hardly relate to most skateboarders anymore. It's like, the purity of it has been sucked out of it, somehow. It's far more important to have the "right" shoes, and the "right" friends, and the "right" video camera, and do the "right" tricks.... there are unspoken rules now, and I grew up in an age where the were no rules. It used to be really cool to be uncool, y'know? Now, the pressure's on to be cool- whatever the hell that is, and it changes from day to day on the whim of the Uber-Coolers who form public opinion. Have you heard of this sort of marketing, where large corporations basically sponsor celebrities to shape their brand's image, and give it more mass appeal? I forget what they call it, but that's basically skateboarding these days. It's a trend to be shaped and embraced for ultimate consumer and branding appeal, not a pastime, hobby, or whimsical excuse to dork off anymore, nosiree.
I think I liked skateboarding more when we were all geeks, dorks, and losers. The Uber-Cools and the Uber-Corporations have killed skateboarding. As for me, well, I heartily embraced my geekiness eons ago, and still do to this day. As Ron Cameron wisely said, when faced with choosing between cool and uncool, go for uncool every time! That's me.
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A Personal Reference From MB
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On 6/12/2006
WT
wrote in from
United States
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
Michael,
I just had a long talk with a reporter from the SEATTLE TIMES. Something about you and a girl named Babette while on a drunken binge in Tijuana?
I told him everything I knew . . . and forwarded what few pics and videos I have. Of course, I'm keeping all the negatives.
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Evolutions DVD
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On 6/12/2006
Mark Grimace
wrote in from
Bahamas
(24.244.nnn.nnn)
Kludy you should do a bit for the DVD about DH safety. I'm pretty new to the sport of speedboarding and I would love to have some sort of referance as to some safety techniques. Especialy emegrancy slides and how to fall.
I've been snowboarding for 20 years so the speed doesn't scare me....it's the stopping and falling. I know ow to brake and the basics but I have come across loads of people that have no idea how to even foot brake. Kids jumping off boards at 30mph is not what the sport needs at this time of resrgence.
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indoor skatepark
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On 6/12/2006
tyler knight
wrote in from
Canada
(205.211.nnn.nnn)
i am thinking about opening an indoor skatepark in barrie ontario and i was just looking for some feedback on this. such as does anyone want this? is there a large enough market for this? and also some suggestions would be great!! there is definitly not enough indoor parks around here and there is no information on the number of parks in ontario or the number of skateboarders so its hard to get info on this sort of thing. any help would be great.
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How to Create Inclusion For Yourself
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On 6/12/2006
MC Hammer Head- Downhillbillies.org
wrote in from
United States
(166.82.nnn.nnn)
To feel "included" go build your scene locally. Plan a jam, encourage others to ride with you, seek out like minded skaters, put together an event, step up to the plate, give back to the sport. Inclusion is a free bi-product of this type of effort.
Use the Field of Dreams philosophy- "Build it and they will come." Build your scene, one skater at a time, and inclusion happens on its own.
The biggest problem facing this sport, and I mean skateboarding in general, is that more people would prefer to complain about it than actually will do something to make it better. Instead of complaining about the direction the sport is going, go out and create a direction for yourself and those around you. If it catches on then its because people like it. If it doesn't then enjoy it for yourself.
Go build your scene.
Marion Karr
DHB WORLD HEADQUARTERS
Skatesville, North Carolina
"Fueling the Stoke One Hillbilly at a Time."
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