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| Completes (3882 Posts)
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Review |
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motorcycle
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On 6/27/2003 hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
mike,
was passing by a local import shop, this guy had an open wheel race car on a dyno. This car got a motorcycle engine in it and weighs @900lb (compared to @400lb for bike)
The owner tells me it turns in faster lap times than motorcycles. Why would that be?
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Loaded Hammerhead DCS
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On 6/27/2003
ScottH
wrote in from
(67.123.nnn.nnn)
First of all, to call a Flowtruck a "gimmick" is pretty low, even for a traditionalist. Its one of the most original, simplest, and most elegant truck designs ever. And now on a hammerhead, it's more of a "contender" than ever for anyone who likes smooth, deep carves. I don’t think that make me a “wanna be”.
I've been riding my Hammerhead quite a bit, I've also got alot of experience on the original Flowlabs.
Before riding my first flowtruck, I imagined it would slide out easily, with only one thin wheel in contact at one time But after progressively carving harder at faster speeds, I can say I've NEVER had a slide out! I've pushed it hard, and never lost grip...I've hypothesized why and tempted myself to subscribe to the 'wheel straight down theory', but i dont think thats it. Got some other ideas, but this post is getting too long anyway. maybe someone from flowlab can give us their take on it.
Mike, i think your reasoning about the torsional looseness of the deck makes a lot of sense in explainig why the hammerhead feels so natural even with two diff trucks.
The Hammerhead has the fluidity of the flowtruck combined with the return-to-center and energy retention of the seismic. So you can throw your weight into a carve more than on a flowboard, and the seismics will absorb that energy (along with the deck), keep you from going too far, and lift you out of a deep carve as soon as you unweight a little.
I would also say that the Hammerhead is not limited to the steeps. There is way less deceleration effect going on. The bearings Loaded uses are quality. Often after a ride i'll drag a foot to stop. I'll pick up the board and the outer-most flow wheels are still spinning from the last deep carves 30 seconds ago. Don’t remember that happening on the flowlab bearings.
The board looks totally nutty and I can see how how it might seem gimmicky, but its one of the sweetest rides I’ve experienced, totally smooth and natural carves (I had the luxury of trying it before I bought). I love it. mmmm hammerhead….nuf talk…i’m goin for a ride…
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Flowtrucks
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On 6/27/2003
Luke
wrote in from
(12.225.nnn.nnn)
I'm curious, then, if you can actually ride comfortably on your outermost flowheels with the seismic limitation? It seems like if you can't, then what's the point? I didn't ride it enough to test this...
hc, the seismics can carve tighter than I'm comfortable with staying on the board. That's why I don't necessarily see the point of the flowboard aside from perhaps greater confidence and grip(?) during these hard carves.
Luke
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Hammerhead - Flowtrucks
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On 6/27/2003 Mike Bremer
wrote in from
(68.164.nnn.nnn)
Hey, I appreciate the appreciation :)
A few comments.
1. The flow-wheels (for lack of a better name) are designed very much like motorcycle wheel, in that they're very thin, yet very curved.
On a motorcycle (best example is a classic crotch-rocket), you have curved wheelsides so that at angles you don't loose traction on heavily banked turns.
Even at 45 degree angles, you have just as much rubber on the rode as at a 0 degree angle.
Now, it's not the exact same situation, because instead of having one motorcycle type wheel, you have seven.. so by the time you're really taking advantage of the flow-wheel's shape, the next wheel has taken over the traction duties.
So in my opinion, Luke is right. The force is usually being directed straight down, and on sharp turns (assuming the ground is not wet, oily or sandy), you would have slightly better grip then a traditionally shaped skateboard wheel.
2. Regarding carving performance, I'm with Dave's opinion. This board, even at high speeds will carve unbelievably tight... So tight that you can throw yourself off by turning too hard.
I see Lukes reasoning about the Seismic's on the back, but in reality, the flex and construction of the deck combine to make this set up work.
In tight turns, yes, you are twisting the deck laterally, simply because the board is designed to do just that.
If this deck were made of stiffer stuff, I'd think that it would be a pretty scary ride.
Imagine the board is made of hardwood of some kind (remember, this is just hypothetical), and you tried to make a sharp turn.
The front flowtrucks would allow you to carve up to 45 degrees (at least, according to Flowlab's web site), but the rear Seismic's would only allow you to carve to say 35 degrees (I'm estimating). What would happen is that your outside, rear wheel would leave the ground, leaving you riding on only two wheels. That would be bad.
But because the board flexes and twists (just a little), in a sharp turn, your body weight + the force of gravity cause the board to almost shape itself to the turn.
The Seismic's carve to their extreme (which is VERY impressive to begin with), and the twist in the board compensates for the slight difference in carving performance between the two trucks.
Of course, this is all theory, based on my experience riding the board (which is a LOT since I bought this thing.. I can't seem to stop riding it :) ).
The important thing is that I've never felt this comfortable on a board.
I think Dave would agree with my previous statement that this board "carves like it's on rails."
Just my 2 cents.
-Mike
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flowlab
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On 6/27/2003 hc
wrote in from
(64.171.nnn.nnn)
luke, i think you got some twisted physics going on..
the seismics is loosing traction cuz from over-leaning of the deck, tipping it on one wheel.
the main problem with the flow truck is still the constant deceleration effect, useful on steeper stuff, but not anywhere else.
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Flowtrucks
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On 6/26/2003
Luke
wrote in from
(12.225.nnn.nnn)
Right,
But I guess you catch my drift when there is still a much greater downward force as opposed to the seismics that actually give resistance laterally?
Luke
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flow truck
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On 6/26/2003 herbn
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
i don't believe that "push straight down" theory,if you just swiveled your ankles and didn't lien "maybe" but you lein while doing any serious turn so your weight still pushes on the riding surface to the side.I don't think flows are a serious consideration,a gimmick aimed at surfers snowboarders and wanna be doing snow/surf people.
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Hammerhead's Lesser Truck
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On 6/26/2003
Dave H.
wrote in from
(12.207.nnn.nnn)
Luke,
I'm probably the only other guy with a hammerhead (the complete, not the personal head shape) and I can tell you that you can carve the board so far over that you'd have to have superglue in your shoe to stay on. The seismic seems to turn almost as far as the flowtruck, and together they turn past the angle that you could stay on.
Dave H.
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flowtrucks
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On 6/26/2003
Luke
wrote in from
(12.225.nnn.nnn)
Also, as I thought about it more, it dawned on me.
Because of the nature of these "flowtrucks" (as I've been calling them), the pressure is always almost directly downward. As the rider leans, the deck may be 45 degrees, but the wheels are still applying most of the weight straight down.
I think this is what makes these trucks work -- put the thin wheels directly on a seismic (or any truck that pushes laterally), and you'll lose a lot of traction. This is how the thicker wheels are able to make up for some of that loss on the seismic.
Luke
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Flowtruck "stick"
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On 6/26/2003
Luke
wrote in from
(12.225.nnn.nnn)
hc,
Yeah, because of the spring-action of the seismic, very tight turns greatly reduce overall traction because of the "push" back against the pavement, whereas the flowtrucks dont have the same push - zero resistance turning (TRUCK resistance, that is).
Luke
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the flow thing
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On 6/26/2003 hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
Luke: "Obviously the flowtrucks provide a more sticky turn than jerking your seismic all the way over"
more stick? with only one wheel on the ground?
exkate (also that original thingamagig) have more lean than the seismic, possible use in the rear?
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Hammerhead
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On 6/26/2003
Luke
wrote in from
(12.225.nnn.nnn)
Mike-
First of all, mad props for your review of the loaded board. That is the kind of review I love to come to this forum and read -- it's in the right section, it actually talks about goods/bads of the board, etc. Good work on the detailed review, fosho.
I rode the hammerhead at skunk last week. I fully agree that on flatland it is much easier to kick than the straight flowboard. and it does carve pretty nice.
Here were my problems with it, though. Because you have a seismic on the back, which obviously doesnt turn as hard as the flowtrucks, your turning will be limited only by the back truck. Therefore, it seems like, unless you are twisting your board torsionally (which I'm not "down" with), your turning is roughly as good as your lesser turning truck.
I have a landyachtz mummy set up with seismics (yellow) and flashys, and I like the ride much better. It grips better (more thane), kicks easier (4 wheels > 3), is lighter/more balanced (same truck front and back), is cheaper, and carves, I would honestly say, almost the same. Obviously the flowtrucks provide a more sticky turn than jerking your seismic all the way over, but the bigger wheels do a pretty good job of making up for that.
Long story short, my recommendation is that $250 is a lot when you can get a deck that feels very similar for less, and takes a lot less maintenance (18 bearings? OUCH!)
Thanks for the great review, nonetheless.
Luke
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On 6/26/2003 Rooney
wrote in from
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
Oh yeah This deck is a different ride all together I reall like the landy but the X just gets better with speed with different truck s would be a great carver.I bought it from Abec11/Chris Chaput picked it up in HB ca.
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Big RED X
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On 6/26/2003 Rooney
wrote in from
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
Sarah I run the wedge small side out no wheel bite added hardcore bushings per Hugh made the whole thing work nice for me.I just got back from 1st time wuth my new girl Big Red X super fast and confidence inspiring trucks downhills by Randal wheels Gumballs by Abec 11 bearings coming Biltins the plastic risers are also nose and tail guards done by Chris Chaput I rode this board as it was handed to me didnt even adjust the trucks all i can say is oh boyohboycant wait to ride tommorow.
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Rooney's Cool X
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On 6/25/2003 Sonny
wrote in from
(139.177.nnn.nnn)
Very cool set up! Please provide more details. Trucks&wheels etc. Did you use a plexiglass material for risers? Did you make them? How does the board ride? Any comparisons/contrasts to Landy's drop deck or riv? Where did you find/buy the deck? Thanks!
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Bulldog long
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On 6/25/2003 Sarah
wrote in from
(139.177.nnn.nnn)
Rooney, Thanks for the info. What type of wedges are you using and how did you position them? Do you run your trucks loose;and, do you have trouble with any wheel bite? Thanks
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Bulldog
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On 6/25/2003 Rooney
wrote in from
(198.81.nnn.nnn)
My Bulldog has Randals with wedges Abec 11 65/78 no skools and its a good all arounder banks ramps carving cruising.check out my new complete BIG RED X speed board on Hugh308,shes a beauty!
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Loaded Hammerhead
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On 6/23/2003
Mike Bremer
wrote in from
(209.179.nnn.nnn)
Hey all!
I just got my brand new Loaded Hammerhead in the mail, and I had to post my review.
First off:
Check out this link to see a picture of the board:
http://www.loadedboards.com/prototypes.html
Loaded’s website says that these boards are coming out in June ’03, but I couldn’t find anyone selling them.
www.palermolongbords.com seems to have the largest selection of the older Loaded boards, so I dropped them an email about the Hammerhead.
Eric from Palermo wrote back and said that they weren’t up on the site yet, but I could special order one.
I gave him my CC# and two days later, my Hammerhead arrived. (Prompt service!)
Looks:
Let’s start off with the vanity stuff…
This board is a little strange looking. Personally, I love the look. My girlfriend says it’s ugly, but I think it’s the coolest board I’ve ever seen.
Love it or hate it, you have to admit it’s unique… and judging by the looks I got on my way to Starbucks (my first trek with the new board), everyone else thinks so too.
Deck:
This board is a mix of a traditional longboard, and a Flowboard (the one’s with the curved trucks). I’ve tried the Flowboards before, and what I DON’T like is how uncomfortable they are on flat land. Basically, only two wheels are ever touching the ground at once, so at slow speeds, it can be a little dicey.
The Hammerhead fixes this problem by putting two wheels on the rear truck… So now, you have three wheels touching the ground at any one time. This means the board sits flat, instead of always leaning to one side. It’s easy to start off on, and makes it easy to cruise at very slow speeds (or just stand on it at a red light).
Trucks:
One the front, you have Flowlab Deep Carve System trucks. One the back, you’ve got Seismic 135’s.
The Flowlab trucks are what make this board unique, but the Seismic’s compliment the Flowlab’s perfectly. They give a perfect amount of resistance.
Flex:
The other Loaded boards (the Vangard’s) come in different flexes, but the Hammerhead only comes in one. If you want to change your flex, you move the rear trucks closer/further to the front trucks, using the pre-drilled holes.
I have mine on the flexiest “setting”, and it feels perfect (to me).
Carving:
This board craves like it’s on rails. It carves as tight as you could imagine, and doesn’t let go.
At slow speeds, you can turn tightly enough to go around the sharpest corner.
At high speeds, this board really comes alive. Cruizing downhill, it effortlessly carves. And yet, it’s incredibly stable!
Infact, it carves so easily, I can take this board downhill on a narrow sidewalk and easily check my speed… which is something I’ve never been able to do on a 37inch+ board.
With a nice wide downhill street, the board is pure heaven…
Cons:
Everything’s got a downside, and this board has only two, VERY minor issues.
1. Don’t try to make a sharp turn on slippery surfaces. The front truck only puts a little bit of rubber on the ground, so there’s not a ton of traction. Try to carve hard on slick ground (especially slick AND wet or oily), and you’re going down.
2. It’s a little uncomfortable to carry under your arm… The board isn’t evenly weighted because of the design and the different weight of the trucks… so holding the board under your arm, the center of gravity is a little off.
BUT, once you get used to where the center of gravity is, carrying it is just fine.
Overall:
I’m VERY happy with my purchase. This was definitely $250 well spent.
On a 1 to 10 scale, I’d have to give this board a 9.5.
And a little side note, I know it’s been said before, but I was VERY happy with the service and support I got from Eric at www.palermolongboards.com. Not only was he nice, helpful and knowledgeable, but he returned my email within 25 minutes.
Also, they also seem to be the only retailer selling the Hammerhead right now (although, as of the time of this writing, you need to call or email to get a Hammerhead – but you may want to look for one in their online store. Apparently they’ll be added real soon).
Hope you all found this helpful!
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BullDog longboard
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On 6/23/2003
Mark
wrote in from
(192.18.nnn.nnn)
I've got my BDS longboard set up with Tracker Aggros (6" hanger), wedge riser up front, 1/4" flat rear, and Gravity Street-G wheels (66mm, 97a for parks). Killer setup, and my main park/bowl board.
I'd recommend Tracker's Sixtrack re-issues with a wedge riser up front, and possibly a wedge in the back, too. I've found that flat-back wheels work great with a 6" truck on the 38" BDS, so you've got lots to choose from.
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Bulldog long/comet parktail
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On 6/23/2003 vaitus
wrote in from
(216.166.nnn.nnn)
I run a 40" comet parktail (25" of wheelbase) with 180mm randals and 70mm flashbacks, with 1/2" risers there's no wheelbite. tall, but a sweet setup. the bulldog looks very similar on paper, anybody pls correct if I'm wrong, except for the wheelbase, which is shorter, 20", and it might work the same with randals.
otherwise you could try tracker sixtrack reissues, which I saw on the bulldog on a concrete wave magazine ad, it looked like the guy was running them on 3/4" risers and 63mm wheels. even better would be webb shogos, if you can find them.
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Bulldog long
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On 6/23/2003 Sarah
wrote in from
(139.177.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for the additional info! I have decided to accept that I need to run a softer 65mm wheel. I have a set 78a center set and about 4cm wide. Now back to the truck issue. I also accept that the Randal 180s are probably not a good match for this deck. I am trying to find out where to get the Seismic 180s( are they available yet and where?). I have a pair of wider Indy trucks( hanger is approx. 145mm), but they would not be wide enough for this set-up. If not what would be the next logical choice in a wide truck for this deck with these wheels?. Thanks again, Sarah
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wacky-jump
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On 6/22/2003 Kolu
wrote in from
(67.192.nnn.nnn)
The only skateboard in the world that can be used down hills, huh? Hmmmm....
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New Wackyboard
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On 6/22/2003
Dave H.
wrote in from
(12.207.nnn.nnn)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3614376055&category=16264
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bulldog
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On 6/22/2003 herbn
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
Overhang,I have Powell Bombers,a center set wheel of moderate width on 217 Webbs(a rather wide truck), and i have no overhangIn fact on that kind of board i like the wheels inset so i can deepen the wheelwells to their maximum depth,just in their most necessary spots, i grind right up to the top ply, just count the rings. I'm gonna have to assemble a group shot of my boards and send them over to Hugh, i'm clueless on posting pics,i think i have to put them on my website and refer to them in comp code,actually i think i prefer to remain clueless:) Well back to your board ,unless you use trackers ultrawide and somewhat silly , 225 or 235 whatever it is,with a side set wheel ,you shouldn't really have a overhang problem, a Bulldog is pretty wide.Trackers might be interesting on a bulldog, if you were gonna use it for faster runs,naturally the same would be true if you got those new seismics in their 35 degree geometry, either one or both trucks ,should make a board real stable,on a higher speed set up i think the softer (78a and under) wheel make more sense, unless you 're just out there to leave the longest skidmarks. That obsession lasted me about two or three sets of wheels(not long:) but i come back to it every now and then. Randals are a 50 degree truck,Indys geometry swerves at 60 degrees but drops degrees as you steer farther because the kingpin geometry effects the pivoting angle,trackers start at a mellower 45 degrees and do the same thing but to a lesser degree and Seismics stay true to their original geometry(45 or 35),Since most of these trucks need risers(on a bulldog) the final ride height of the trucks comes close to that of the randals, the randals do seem to be capable of steering further, so on a bulldog they may need some riser as wheel,in comparing the geometry the randals should be able to run lower and get the same turning radius,but this usually isn't the reality,randals ride higher,it works on 40+ boards with a long wheelbase but most people don't like them on boards like the Bulldog,sub 40 double kicks.
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