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| Completes (3882 Posts)
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Pro 41 or Pro 60
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On 8/12/2000
Jesse H.
wrote in from
(216.78.nnn.nnn)
Help me!! I have been wanting to get a flexdex pro 60 for a while but then I saw a Flexdex pro 41 for 92 dollars complete with 65mm power paws and RII trucks. Thats a pretty good deal so I was wondering what should I go with for right now.
Thanks
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flowlab
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On 8/11/2000
Mike G
wrote in from
(64.7.nnn.nnn)
Wouldnt the flowlab be easier to pump with a flexier deck with some snap? like the comet downhill boards? I think they should look into that.
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Flowlab
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On 8/11/2000
John Gilmour
wrote in from
(18.202.nnn.nnn)
Pumping the flowlab. When I refer to "pumping" I mean actually being able to produce enough speed to acellerate on the flats and travel uphill with some degree of efficientcy.
It is possible to "pump" fixed axle designs. I can even pump one footed on a single inline skate. I can generate a tiny amount of speed to maintain my speed on a flat -throwing my body around with exaggerated twisting movements and with HUGE HUGE effort be able to propel myself uphill. But it is so inefficient that it is stupid to bother.
Because the Flowlab is a fixed axle design there can be no real "lead or lag" time between the two trucks- it is this "out of phase" movement that makes conventional trucks so pumpable. And what we are reviewing here is really not the deck, or the Inline wheels, but the truck. This is one of the trade offs you have to make for a truck which never wears out, has no moving parts, and needs no maintaince. Not such a bad trade since who really would pump on this design anyhow. I would rather have the latter attributes and leave pumping up to a slalom deck- not a giant freeriding deck.
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Amc
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On 8/11/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(208.192.nnn.nnn)
Does anyone remember that the AMC was way ahead of everyone their car, the Pacer came with a Grentec poly-board.................I hope not,cos i just made it up:)
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VW/Trek® BMW/streetcarver FOrd/someotherstupid bike
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On 8/11/2000
namon
wrote in from
(4.4.nnn.nnn)
drakkar, im not really mad. I just like to tell myself that I am. But really, the board still might kick some ass, even though it is targeted at the wrong kind of people. BMW makes super great cars. The should be able to make great boards. But maybe they where not thinking of real skaters when they made it. But the people that make cones for the street didnt make them for skaters to slalom with. They made them for daves tree service and out of commition trucks.It just so happend that they work great for skating too : )
a few years ago, Jetta (VW) came out with the Trek® edition of the car. IT came with a bike rack and a single track mountian bike. ONe that really sucked. THey gave the car a sports package, (read new rims and different intereor) and sold it for more money. THey also wrote trek® on the back of the car. This is what I BMW is going to do. THey will come out with a sports package, and then sell the board with some cool rack on the top. Well, at least IHope that they do something like that. THat would rule.
BEcause really, if I was in the market for a BMW (M3!!!!) and there where two cars with similer preformance specs. then I Would choose the one with the street carver : )
ford is doing it to. But they suck at it. THey are using the pulse, or the fiesta or some other dumb car with a bad name.
bomb hills
not people
namon
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flow pump
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On 8/11/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
On the flats the "half pump" is pretty effective... the inherent slowness of the board really plays against you if your not on a slope. So maintaining speed is a lot of work on the flats (I get tired fast so I stick to the hills!)
Two things that need to happen to improve the deck (they will improve the ability to slow speed pump too) is to upgrade the bearings and use bearing spacers...
Hope that helps... HR
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pump up the flowlab
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On 8/11/2000 cmc
wrote in from
(207.41.nnn.nnn)
Thanks hugh. I see what you are saying but on a fairly straight away can you still pump this board to maintain speed without touching a foot down or are you refering to a toe to heel pump with speed atained from a sloping grade using that sloping grade to maintain the speed.
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more pump
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On 8/11/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
also...
half pumps work really well on this deck... this would be where you weight on the arc that your toes are towards the pavement and you coast through the arc that your heels are towards the ground... this works well for me... HR
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flowlab
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On 8/11/2000
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
cmc,
The board is actually fairly easy to pump once you get it rolling. Pumping from a dead stop would be very difficult, but if your rolling at about 5 mph the pumping works well.
The pumps must have a loooong arc to them... shorties won't do because then you are fighting the increased friction of the extra wheels. Part of the technique involves timing the weighting/un-weighting with the fewest number of wheels down when you weight and the max down when you un-weight.
So try weighting the board on the outside of the top arc and un-weighting as you approach center...
Hope that helps... HR
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flowlab
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On 8/11/2000
cmc
wrote in from
(208.49.nnn.nnn)
You stated Roger that you could pump this board. Either your pretty darn good or your telling fibs. Were you abducted by aliens too?
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BMW Street carver
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On 8/11/2000
drakkar
wrote in from
(213.56.nnn.nnn)
hey namon .....
Tell me more about the TREK from VW.
OK I'm putting down german products somtimes ????? ;-)
I'm sorry if you took it that way but their site is more geared toward germans than other people (look at their profile on the rider) and when they say they take the best out of surfing/snowboarding/skateboarding then it's just hype .....
Anyway i'd like to try it then ......
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Flowlab
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On 8/10/2000
rogerj
wrote in from
(198.206.nnn.nnn)
At first push the board is shaky, but it's not a problem at all. It's much more fun to start with a run and jump, then push. Once you are going about 3mph it is not that wobbly. At 10mph it is smooth and stable. I did not take it much faster, too interested in turning. This things really says turn me, turn me more!
Just because it has a fixed number of angled wheels does not mean it has a fixed number of turning radii.
The steering is not as "digital" as John implies. It is possible make turn without changing angles of axles, I do it all the time with rollerblades (turn on one foot).
I like it's neutral turning/arc profile and again disagree John's suggestion to flatten it out in the middle (more stable going straight, much less stable carving). If I where to alter the profile it would be the opposite - optimized for turning and not <3mph speeds going straight. Get over the low speed wobbly thing, it doesn't make you fall!
Softer wheels towards the edges make sense, but I would want the last ones to be hard for intentional slides and drifty turns - it's all rider's preference.
And yes you can pump this board! But that is not what it is about (at least for me).
I really liked it! Very smooth rail to rail, fluid once you get to know it. I think I am going to have to get one. My only complaint is that it is slow, but that is what hills are for.
ridewell,
rogerj
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BMW Street Carver
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On 8/10/2000
Hamm
wrote in from
(63.27.nnn.nnn)
I feel like I'm missing something here. Who's knocking German products???? I personally make a habit of collecting German engineered products because of thier superior quality; cars, guns, etc.
Very glad to here the Streetcarver is coming over.
Dave
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BMW
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On 8/10/2000
namon
wrote in from
(4.4.nnn.nnn)
"(read more like HYPE) image for fat germans morons ..... Nothing like longboarding ....."
okay, lets not knock things with out trying them first. Then, lets not talk bad about germans. Being one myself, I dont like that much. : ) besides, there are more fat american morons then any other fat moronic people ellse where. Americans have some of the most unhealthy people out there. This has to do with thier lifestyle and diet. And while there are many fat germans, they tend to lead more relaxed stress free lives. So there
Anyway, I am not going to judge a book by its cover, before making fun of the street carver, I am going to try it first.
Did anyone outside of me make fun of Trek® when it joined up with VW? because they did the same thing. And now ford has it with someone too.
german moron, not fat
and proud of it
namon
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Flexdex mini slater
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On 8/10/2000 {LL{
wrote in from
(207.104.nnn.nnn)
Has anybody rode these mini Slaters that are $90.00. How do they ride? They look pretty sick.
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Dregs 44" Maggie
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On 8/10/2000
John G
wrote in from
(209.125.nnn.nnn)
Just got the Dregs 44" Maggie. I checked out their website and they said this board "works as a crosstrainer for surf, snow and wake" and indead it does! If anyone wants to check out a slick, street carver try this NOW. I am amazed at how cool this board is! Its also an easy turner which makes it nice for those downhill rides.
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powerhouse roadboard
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On 8/10/2000
skater-Joe
wrote in from
(209.239.nnn.nnn)
I tried a set of randal 2's on my 47" powerhouse roadboard with 70mm clasic K's
and wow!! awesome control downhill carveing and great stability. I'm sticking
with this new setup. this roadster deck has a wide front end that forces you to
keep your turning waight up front so your rear wheels dont slide out on high
speed turns.
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BMW Streetcarver
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On 8/10/2000
john gilmour
wrote in from
(64.197.nnn.nnn)
Just got word that the BMW boards will be here in a few weeks. They were not going to import them, but changed their minds.
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Flowlab
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On 8/9/2000
john Gilmour
wrote in from
(18.202.nnn.nnn)
I emailed phil of flowlabs about single bearing wheels about a month or so ago . The inline industry has had them for years. This would elinminate the alignment problems and reduce the need for spacer alignment. Actually I think the design could be done with just three wheels, but it would have a barrel shapped symetrical center wheel and two decreasing radius asymetric side wheels flanking the center wheel. This would give extra traction as the contact patch would be larger. Of course they would be mixed durometer, perhaps the outwheels would be dual durometer with the inner most part of the wheel closest to the center wheel being harder, say 78a durometer and the outer being softer say 75a. The outer lip of the outwheel might have a flange design reminiscient of the old power paw wheels and have a flexible lip. To further increase traction the wheel might flare 1-3mm near that edge to aid in edge deformation to really pump up the size of the traction patch. The Yandall Pro Rolls of the 70's used a double inner face with this "pumped up flange". They were the highest traction wheels I have ever ridden. Also very slow as the wheel was constantly deforming even when going straight- but in the flowlab design the flange would only make contact with the ground at the time when traction was in most demand. I am sure I can pump up this design.
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Low Flab
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On 8/9/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Hey, if one axle had one extra or one fewer wheels (6,or 8)then the turns would be blendings of different radius rather than 3 distinct arcs,how about wider profile wheels on the edges,for deep turn traction.Single bearing wheels.
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Powered Skater
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On 8/9/2000 FYI
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
There is an electric scooter coming out that has an adapter that connects to the chuck on a cordless electric drill. The thing hauls ass and could be easliy adapted for a skateboard truck hanger. This means you could have a skateboard alone and a drill (with spare batteries) or an electric skateboard when combined.
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The FlowLab. "Raiders of the lost Arc?"
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On 8/8/2000
John Gilmour
wrote in from
(18.202.nnn.nnn)
I got a hold of a Flowlab board and have been riding it for the past week. My inital impressions were similar to ones others have had. The wheel combination on the one I had used 88a durometer Kryptonics inline wheels with a freestyle profile -somewhat slow. MY feelings are that use of a 78a durometer wheel would be considerably better. Better still would be to mix durometers and use 78a durometer wheels near the center of the arc of wheels and use softer grippy 75 or 70a wheels on the outside so when you need grip the most it is there. I got more attention riding the flowboard than I did with the exskate powerboard. The Flowboard just looks strange as it appears to turn without any steering input other than the board tilt. No moving truck parts whatsoever. In fact it looks like you are Hovering over the ground as the contact patch is so small. It seems like you are just balancing on an arc.
The board is tippy during push off. This could be moderated by changing the arc by flattening the axle. Easier still is to put a slightly smaller wheel in for the center wheel. That way you can tune the "tipping" of the board through wheel size. There are arcs in two directions. One arc dictates the tilt of the board which is the arc that moves laterally across the width of the board and the other arc is the arc of the same axle curving inwards to create the "steering arc". As these are fixed and identical arcs they are not immediately adjustable though I have a way to fix that. perhaps with some of my input they would consider implementing this adjustability.
That being said lets look at the whole picture. The paradigm is very different. As there is no resonant frequency in this set up as there is no "spring constant" there should be no high speed wobble. You also have no lead or lag in turning and hence can not gyrate or "pump" the board. There are no truck parts to wear out. You can never "grind" these to nothing. It would also be possible to have multiple arcs of wheels which could be overlapping by having wheels from each nearly paralell axle alternate. This would allow the board to go over terrain with big surface imperfections and also increase traction dramatically. There are a lot of ways this concept could head and I see little negative in that. Skateboarding as whole has stagnated for the past 30 years and it is refreshing to see designs from Seismic, exskate and flowboard that actually work.
One unexpected benefit of the flowboard was letting my girlfriend use it to strengthen her badly sprained ankle. She has been using it to force herself to stabilize the ankle joint and with good success.
Also I taught a friend to Flowboard Before learning to skateboard. He learned in a 7 story parking garage last night. Unlike learning on a regular skateboard where the beginner spends most of his or her time trying to go straight the flowboard encourages turning and rewards turning by allowing the user to moderate his or her speed through turn shape. This resulted in Robert, who had never ridden before, riding the flowboard with some degree of proficientcy in just 25 minutes. After just 25 minutes on the Flowboard he was able to ride the Exskate Powered skateboard and turn it with very well for a beginner. I would not expect this kind of learning performance if Robert had tried to learn on a regular skateboard or one with softer wheels or if he had been learning on a long board. As a learning tool the Flowboard directs the beginners skills towards balance and control and discourages jumping off the board or dragging ones foot, which really would not be an option for the beginner who has little lateral balance with their feet. Also it took little input other than simple advice on stance position and reminding Robert to flex forward from the ankle joint. The length of the flowboard helped add to its stability for beginners. I would not have expected the flowboard to be such an excellent learning tool, I would have expected the opposite.
One other great benefit is that the board comes pre-assembled and is not able to be maladjusted by a beginner (or even an advanced skater for that matter). One thing I would like to see change on the flowboard is to have a slightly different arc for the rear as opposed to the front truck so that proportionally more steering is done with the front truck. For freestyle I would leave it the way it is for riding switchstance.
I was able to arc the board way the hell over. Much further than a regular board. This did take a little "unlearning" as I was hesitant to do so at first, but it worked well. Traction was still a concern as doing a huge arc at speed would result in a slide, but this would be easy to fix with higher traction wheels. Since there are 7 wheels on each axle there are 6 arcs possible in each direction. The first arc is the combination of the center wheel and the wheel next to it touching the ground, the next arc is just the wheel next to the center wheel touching the ground, the next would be the wheel next to the center wheel touching and the wheel two wheels away from the center wheel touching the ground. and so on. Very confusing to word and probably harder to comprehend without a diagram. This is "digital turning" as opposed to "Analog turning" . You have preset arcs determined. It may sound strange, but it works.
I would like to have the arc get more progressive as the board is leaned over harder and I would also like the arc to be almost non existant when resting near flat. This would help reduce the tippy feeling of the board. I am not sure if they have experimented with this type of arc, and I am sure it would be more difficult to load wheels onto this type of arc. I also wonder what it would be like to ride this with a more flexible deck or one with more camber. As part owner of a Carving Snowboard company I would like to see another higher performance model which was longer and built for higher speeds and wider arcs come out. I'm always looking for a crosstrainer for the off season. Now if only we could mount bindings on this....
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exkate powerboard
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On 8/8/2000
Ryan
wrote in from
(152.163.nnn.nnn)
OK, I haven't tried it. Yet I think the ideal is to have an outside unit to push or pull you so you could use any number of boards from a freebord, flowlab, or other longboards. Some I've used, such as the rollercycle, which sucks for longboarding and is marginal for mountainboards. Powerski looks interesting, but the posture seems wacky for longboarding. The rollerpup looks good, but it's about $1000 usd.
What I'm working on is an electric powered unit to pull. When I'm done with it I should have a out $300 usd in it. The unit is based off of plans for an electric powered bicycle using a skilsaw circular saw (full bearings for durability and actually will run off of 48v DC). The saw turns a 12 inch wheel in front of me with a a freewheel adapted to it. In this thinking, you can power up to full speed with the motor and then coast without motor drag. Results should be forthcoming (to be posted in misc. equipment here).
Ryan
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Flowlab
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On 8/8/2000
Hamm
wrote in from
(63.27.nnn.nnn)
1st- I gotta give props to Flowlab for seeing that kicking down a demo board to HughR would be good exposure for them. And then I want to give thanks to HughR for being so cool and letting any and everybody who was even remotely interested in the thing take as many turns as they wanted at Dump Rd on Sunday.
I'll be the 1st to admit that when I 1st visited the Flowlab website and saw this thing I just giggled and and thought to myself;'there's one born every minute'. While driving up to Dump Rd Sunday AM I was eager with anticipation about allot of things, but trying the Flowlab was not one of them. I am now a convert. This wacky contraption is really neat. I wish I had taken more runs on it, but there was so much to see and ride. I really believe this thing has a world of potential. Its surprising light and I found it easy to ollie and do 360's on. I really think that with a little time I could do real ollies and not the little pretend ones I was doing. When seeing pictures of it I wondered how on earth do you go STRAIGHT on it, but that too was easy-it tracks real well.
But I think that it could open up a whole new area of skating. The crazy curved axles could allow you to ride in V-shaped drainage ditches and other funky tight spaces that a conventional skateboard can't go. Say you were going down a circular ramp like they have at stadiums and some parking garages. I'm thinking that after you got enough speed you could actually wedge the board between the flat ground and the flat wall and ride both at the same time like a banked turn at a racetrack(does that make sense?).
And I'd love to try one in a concrete skatepark.
Hey Flowlab-feel like kicking down another demo?(haha)
Late
Dave
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Exkate Powerboard
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On 8/8/2000
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Gilmour's review is right on the money. The "cool factor" alone is worth purchasing one. People watch you and don't hear anything and don't always even understand what they are seeing until you are going uphill fast without pushing. This board and modified race versions, along with the upcoming electric LUGE will make for tracks and velodromes to spring up in many communities because they are virtually silent and don't require a monster hill to enjoy. Louie (Finkle) designed the torsion truck for the electric board to turn in a tight radius and many riders are enjoying the commercial model truck for carving. He is also like a mad scientist putting together the coolest toys on the planet. His electric drag racers and electric go carts accelerate like nothing you could imagine. I was there yesterday drooling over his shop and its contents trying to figure out how I could become his new best friend. As for today, the Powerboard is available to the public and is a sweet, sweet ride. As for tomorrow, the forecast is bright.
p.s. Don't jump on the board when Waldo has the remote control in his hand. He's a funny guy who can't resist testing an old skater's reflexes. I learned the hard way ;)
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