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| Skateboarding Law (490 Posts)
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California helmet law.
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On 3/12/2006
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
El Cajon law regarding prohibitions on skateboarding in certain areas and for skateboarding in the park are located here:
http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/codes/elcajon/_DATA/TITLE09/Chapter_9_42__BICYCLING__ROLLER_SK/index.html
There are prohibited areas including the "Expanded Civic Center", and any private property (parking lot) with a posted sign. No helmet law except for the skateboard park...
===================================
California state law 21212. (a) A person under 18 years of age shall not operate a
bicycle, a nonmotorized scooter, or a skateboard, nor shall they wear
in-line or roller skates, nor ride upon a bicycle, a nonmotorized
scooter, or a skateboard as a passenger, upon a street, bikeway, as
defined in Section 890.4 of the Streets and Highways Code, or any
other public bicycle path or trail unless that person is wearing a
properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet that meets the standards
of either the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) or
the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), or
standards subsequently established by those entities. This
requirement also applies to a person who rides upon a bicycle while
in a restraining seat that is attached to the bicycle or in a trailer
towed by the bicycle.
Any charge under this subdivision shall be dismissed when the
person charged alleges in court, under oath, that the charge against
the person is the first charge against that person under this
subdivision, unless it is otherwise established in court that the
charge is not the first charge against the person.
=============================
So you need to go to court, allege that this is your first offense, and it will be automatically dropped (unless it is NOT your first offense). Then go out and buy a helmet!
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No-helmet bust
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On 3/12/2006
Billy Cash
wrote in from
United States
(68.105.nnn.nnn)
The state I live in is California. The county is San Diego. The city is El Cajon. I don't know what citation is but I think u mean what section the crime is if thats what u want. It is 21212 or something like that and it says not wearing a helmet. I looked up the law on it and I can't find anything on the helmet law for San Diego, if u can and let me know with another post that would be great. Sincerly Billy
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No-helmet bust
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On 3/12/2006
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
Many areas have helmet laws for riders under 16yrs old (bicycle and skateboard).
I understand that usually the ticket asks you to appear in court. If you and your parents do the appropriate "it won't happen again sir" dance, then there will be no fine.
They are trying to scare you into wearing a helmet. I hope it works because even a small fall can seriously injure you.
Can you tell us more about where this happened (city, county, state), what the ticket says the citation is for? It helps us look up the exact law.
Every driver knows that the best time to speed without getting caught is when the police are already writing up someone else for a ticket. When you were getting your ticket, the bicycle rider was in no danger of being cited. The cops won't stop writing your ticket to attend to something else unless it is a very serious event (crash w/injury, bank robbery, etc).
--Pat
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Cop busted me
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On 3/12/2006
Billy Cash
wrote in from
United States
(68.105.nnn.nnn)
My name is Billy and I am 16. A week ago I Was skating with my friends and we were going down the street when we get into a store we come out of the store and we are skating in a parking lot when all of a sudden a cop pulls up. He asks us why we wern't wearing helmets and why we were skating on a no skate section. I told him that there was no sign. He asks for my information and I give it to him. My friends did to. I havn't called them to see if they got the ticket too. While he was writing our info my friend says look there is a biclclist not wearing a helmet why isn't he getting a ticket. And the cop egnors my friend and keeps writing the info down. And he didn't get a ticket for riding his bike. So today i get in the mail the ticket and It has no price I have to pay, but it says I got to go to court. Ok in my area no one ever gets tickets for not wearing helmets unless a cop is bord. And this pisses me off real much because 1 I see cops all the time and they never bust me for not wearing a helmet 2 I don't look good in a suit and I don't like being in a boring court room. Now I think that skaters get alot of disrespect. We are just out there trying to have fun and its not like if I fall and hurt my self I am going to sue the city becuase it is my own fault.
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cops suck
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On 3/8/2006 garage racer
wrote in from
United States
(71.14.nnn.nnn)
a cop chased after me at the SMU garage on a sunday (no school= no cars) i stoped to ask should i leave ? he pulled his mace out!!!! i said whoa buddy!! he told me to take it easy!!! i was like this is BS and hauled ass outta there i heard him radio a fellow guy say we have stoner on his skateboard tell him to beat it. rediculous
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Skate
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On 3/7/2006 Aaron
wrote in from
United States
(204.38.nnn.nnn)
Just skate ...... i do it whether its legal or not if they come to kick me out i leave and come back 10 minutes later w/ a new board in hand. ("you didnt tell me i couldnt skate this board here") anyways i like what your doing here use my words as wisome
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contraverisial issue paper
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On 2/14/2006
Thompson
wrote in from
United States
(207.200.nnn.nnn)
hey guys, the name is thompson. im a freshman at poway high and was wondering if you guys could help me with some stuff...
im in an honors english class and was assigned a contreversial issue paper. i had to choose what to write about and chose skateoard laws...
i also need a few people to interview...you can email, im (tozteen) or myspace me (www.myspace.com?hawtyoverheremkkk)
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...
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On 2/3/2006 Ghooste
wrote in from
United Kingdom
(193.113.nnn.nnn)
I dont know how you guys cope, its gotta be the most infuriating situation. Feel for you dudes, hope you find a way round. Its the damn suing culture. Loss of earnings and med bills fair enough but money to make you feel better? How does a few grand make it better that you broke your arm? I mean yeah everyone likes to have some more money but does it effect the broken arm that you have a new tv an your tax bills paid up? No. That, I believe, is the crux of the issue, compensation culture.
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re: "Hazardous Activity" = free from liability?
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On 1/17/2006
msk
wrote in from
United States
(68.190.nnn.nnn)
"how, then, do they get away with having public skateparks open dawn-to-dusk with no adult supervision?
All public skateparks I know of in CA and MA operate in such a manner"
Actually, several California parks, especially some of the bigger/better parks like Glendale, Laguna Niguel, Santa Monica, and Etnies/Lake Forest, are staffed.
The California state law that designates skateboarding as a hazardous activity is conditional. In order to be free from liability, the city must either have a staff enforcing a pads/helmet rule, or in the case of an unstaffed park, pass a city ordinance requiring pads and a helmet in the park.
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"Hazardous Activity"=free from liability?
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On 1/11/2006 Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(15.252.nnn.nnn)
Here's some reasons that some cities could have less restrictions on skate parks than others:
State law is more "protective" of the cities.
Historical precendent in that state favors the defendant (the city) than to the plaintif (the injured skater).
The particular city "risk manager" is more or less inclined to accept risk.
The city has been sued in the past and has lost, is running out of money, etc.
The community insists on a skatepark and is willing to pay for good insurance without restrictions.
Etc, etc, etc.....
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"Hazardous Activity"=free from liability?
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On 1/11/2006
Lansing
wrote in from
United States
(70.146.nnn.nnn)
Thanks, Pat -- Very informative...though not exactly encouraging.
I guess my question would be this: Unless the statutes in other states are more explicit about the situation regarding minors, how, then, do they get away with having public skateparks open dawn-to-dusk with no adult supervision?
All public skateparks I know of in CA and MA operate in such a manner, and it seems to me that if an underage skater got injured and the city/county/state was at ALL liable for the acts of minors because they cannot assume the risk (not being adults), there would have been dozens of lawsuits by now and parks would be closing like mad. But to the contrary, it seems that every little village and hamlet in CA, AZ, OR, and WA is building a public skatepark -- many with big ol' tranny and 10-step stairs, etc.
Is it simply that CA, MA and other state statutes declaring skateboarding a "hazardous activity" explicity address this issue, and specify clearly that minors also "assume the risk" themselves? But if a minor cannot assume such a risk in FL, then how would that free cities in other states simply by having it in writing in the statute?
Lansing
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miami cops
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On 1/11/2006 dirty dan
wrote in from
United States
(64.80.nnn.nnn)
I was with my friends skateing downtown miami when we took a break. there was this cop that we saw follow us from burger king to the next spot just cause he saw a familiar urban skateboarding sticker on our car. when we got out of the car to skate he arrested two of my friends who were skateing. he told us that he knew there was gonna be trouble when he saw that sticker. how gay is that
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Hazardous Activity = "free from liability"???
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On 1/10/2006 Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
This article has an overview of the new Florida law and its effect on liability insurance and risk exposure to a city building a skate park.
http://www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/JN/JNJournal01.nsf/0/fafeb77e0d5ba70185256c6200704a96?OpenDocument
The gist of the article is that the poorly written Florida law, combined with no real precedents (past lawsuits that have been brought to trial and conclusion)gives the "risk manager" of a city no real firm idea how protected the city may be. So, naturally, the "risk manager" errs on the side of less risk by purchasing insurance, and the insurance carrier insists on rules to help protect the company against lawsuits ..... leading to parks that aren't open very long, or don't go vert, etc...
Until some of these laws are tested and proven to hold up in court, the city managment will likely continue to insist on insurance.
So the best thing that could happen is for a number of skateboarders to get "injured" at the park, file lawsuits after hiring attorneys who are paid to loose by not challenging the state law, then these cases can set a precedent that the state law is "strong", and the city can forego insurance converage and the restrictive rules of the insurance carrier. Yep, that's going to happen! :)
Alternatively, the law could be strengthened into something with real meaning...
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"Hazardous Activity" = free from liability?
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On 1/10/2006
Lansing
wrote in from
United States
(70.146.nnn.nnn)
I just moved to Miami, and it is "tranny hell." The nearest 'crete bowls are at the Oeslner Y, 105 miles from my house (= 2.5 hour drive each way in Miami traffic).
There is a pre-fab McSkate Park in Marathon (1 hr. away), and they just did a major upgrade and added a nice 6 foot wooden bowl. It's at the city park, and get this (you aren't gonna believe it): The city has set the skatepark hours from 3 to 5pm daily!! TWO friggin' hours! What an absolutely joke.
Wanna know why (I just got off the phone with the Parks & Rec department)? They say that their liability insurance company requires them to have adult supervision to enforce the pad rules, etc. or they won't be covered. That means they have to hire someone over the age of 18 to be present, and then you get into -- yup, you guessed it -- NO BUDGET. All they can afford is to hire someone for a couple of hours per day, as there is no budget for a full-time park employee to man the skatepark.
OK. Can you say LAME? Why the crap even build a bowl - or a skatepark at all - if you can't afford to have it open?
But here's my question and the real issue:
According to my understanding, many states (such as CA) had skateboarding legally declared as a "hazardous activity," which opened the way for cities to build public skateparks because they were then free from liability. Right? And according to what I've been told, cities actually OPEN themselves up to liability once they hire a Pad-Nanny to supervise the skatepark -- hence the fact that all the public/city skateparks I've ever been to in CA and MA are unmanned and open dawn-to-dusk.
So I did some research, and found out that Florida also just declared skateboarding a "hazardous activity" in 2005 (state statute 316.0085 under title XXII).
Doesn't this mean that the city is NO LONGER liable as long as they post the rules (i.e. "skateboarding is dangerous, so wear pads and don't do something stoopid.")? That's the way it works in CA and MA, at least. If some kid breaks his arm or dies, Mom & Dad can't sue the city for $10,000,000 because skateboarding is defined as a hazardous activity, and the park was NOT monitered.
I then found out that there are other public skateparks in Florida that are *unsupervised* and open dawn-to-dusk.
So I call the Parks & Rec dept. back and share all this information. Well, you can imagine the response I got. Not very friendly. "Well sir, we are required to have liability insurance, and the insurance company has informed us that there needs to be a hired adult present to monitor the skatepark and enforce the regulations."
To which I reply "Um...well, not to be rude, but there are hundreds and hundreds of public skateparks on city property all over the country, which are unsupervised and open all day. Perhaps there is a wee bit of 'conflict of interest', and instead of listening to the insurance company you could consult with a city lawyer? Of course a insurance company is going to tell the city to hire someone to enforce the rules, and in fact the fewer hours the skatepark is open, the better in their eyes. And perhaps they -- and your Parks & Rec manager -- are not even familiar with the new statute declaring skateboarding a hazardous activity under Florida law."
Again -- Not a happy reply. "Well, sir, I'm happy to pass this information along to (get this) our INSURANCE company and see what they say."
Um - Did you not hear what I said, lady? I even gave her the statute # and told her that I would be happy to discuss it with a LAWYER for the city. No dice.
Advice????
Am I missing something here?
Is there anywhere I can get more ammunition about the liabilities (or lack of) of cities in states where skateboarding is legally a hazardous activity?
Help!
Thanks,
Lansing
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skateboarding law
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On 1/7/2006
Gurra
wrote in from
Sweden
(213.64.nnn.nnn)
it's a pity it has come to this in the US, it's totaly mad. i can't belive you get fines for skating on an ordinary road. something must be truely rotten. come to sweden and skate with us, you don't get tickets here, no one would ever dream about it. btw, i'm comin over to LA this summer to skate, surf and hang out. I'll probably be alone so if anyone wants to show me around, email me... hang loose cheers.
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alan "Ollie Gelfand
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On 1/2/2006
allskaters
wrote in from
United States
(68.209.nnn.nnn)
Looks like Ollie has quite a legal team. Check out Schlesinger Tobacco billion $ lawsuit. Schlesinger is only one Lawyer of a team Alan has compiled. The suit is also about use of personality.
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Law Information
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On 1/1/2006
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
I gave some pointers on how I search for skateboarding laws in a previous post:
http://www.ncdsa.com/56/224/248/Skateboarding-Law.htm
But basically I use a standard search engine such as "Google" with keywords like "municipal" "code" "statute" etc, along with the name of the city, county, or state. Once the code (written law) is found, I do a search there for keywords like "vehicle" "scooter" "skateboard" "pedestrian" "nonmotorized", etc.
Usually takes about 15 minutes to find it if it exists...
-- Pat
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Law Information
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On 1/1/2006 Craig
wrote in from
United States
(66.245.nnn.nnn)
This quesiton is directed mostly at Pat Chewing but open to everyone. You seem like a highly knowledgable person. I saw some posts where you are quoting actual city laws, etc. Is there an easy way for a layman to access these laws online for their specific area or town so they know what the cops can and can't do in advance?
thanks,
Craig
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skating in the street
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On 12/31/2005 matt
wrote in from
United States
(69.141.nnn.nnn)
now in days around my area theres this hate for skaters i dont kno why but people just start judging some1 riding a skateboard as a bad person...i was once skatin on the side of the street becuz the sidewalk is way to messed up to ride on...i was with about 5 kids on bikes on a side road that has very minimal traffic when a car came we parted to each side and the guy get out of his car just to yell at me...this guys gotta alot of nerve...but i dont think theres any law for skaters not to skate in the street so wat right does he have to tell me to get off the side of the road why dont they fix the side walks
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i almost got a ticket for skateboarding on a roand that has no sidewalk
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On 12/22/2005
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(15.252.nnn.nnn)
Tish:
Tell us where this road is: Country, State, County, City, etc.
Tell us if the road is public, private, in a park, or what.
We can look up the laws that apply (if any) and see what they say about skateboarding.
Also: Pay more attention to who you talk to. (i.e. Figure out who they are.) It would be nice to get a business card from the "park ranger/cop/secrity guard" so you can see who you are dealing with. Most people in authority are required to give you their identity if you ask for it (badge #, name, who they work for, etc.)
-- Pat
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i almost got a ticket for skateboarding on a roand that has no sidewalk
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On 12/22/2005
tish
wrote in from
United States
(66.177.nnn.nnn)
the other day i almost got a ticket for skateboarding on a road that has no sidewalk. the road is basicly like a big hill that has no sidewalk. me and my friends were skaetboading down the hill/road and a park ranger/cop/secrity guard comes driveing up the road/hill and says that we cant ride our boards on the road.thats just not right. its a god damn road. we should totaly be able to ride our boards on the road or they sh0uld get a god damn sidewalk. im going bac today to skate it somemore. if they stop my ill just tell them whats on my mind
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A little bit of intellectual property law
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On 12/18/2005 Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
Intellectual property is tricky stuff. The concept here is trademark law. To successfully win I believe that Alan would have to show:
1) He registered his trademark before it became a common term. (Think "Kleenex" and "Xerox")
2) He protected his trademark over the years, not allowing it to become a common term. (Found and sued people over the years who were using "Ollie" without his consent.)
3) He was consistent in the use of his trademark in his own works.
Of course, he needs to show all of this while using limited funds for his legal team when going up against the big guys like Disney.
I'd give him a 20% chance of winning in a court. 50% chance of getting some nominal settlement before it goes to court.
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A little bit of intellectual property law
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On 12/16/2005 Auntie Tellinya
wrote in from
Finland
(194.29.nnn.nnn)
What is this stuff I hear about Alan Gelfand suing companies that use the word "Ollie" in their products? I hear names like "Flowlab", "Ron Jon Surf Shop", "Sega", "Disney" and "Activision" being on the other side of the table.
Here are some links. The Miami Herald story (which allegedly is from Associated Press, so it should have some degree of credibility) looks like it has most of the interesting stuff there:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13347004.htm
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051208/BREAKINGNEWS/51208003
http://sony.gamerfeed.com/gf/pr/9756/
http://www.wfmy.com/watercooler/article.aspx?storyid=53406
Could someone with legal background comment on this? It's not really "skate law" but at least it involves a well known skateboarder suing people making skateboarding related products.
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thanks
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On 12/14/2005
jim
wrote in from
United States
(68.8.nnn.nnn)
thanks pat
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some dude yelled at me
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On 12/13/2005
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
United States
(67.189.nnn.nnn)
My suggestions:
If you have to cross a fence to get the skate area, then it's probably a spot you should avoid. If no fence, then you're probably OK.
Be polite, especially with jerks. Offer to TALK about what his concerns are. Politely disagree with his assessment of whether you should skate there.
Keep the language clean and the noise to a minimum.
If that all fails, and he insists on calling the police, do nothing. Don't run away with this threat, don't yell at him. The police will take their time and likely not show up at all, or if they do it will be well after your session is over.
Sounds like the gravel has been washed from upstream -- you should be able to move it without hurting the drainage.
Sometimes it's hard to say if a spot is OK or not without seeing where it is, how close the houses are, what the exposure is, alternate uses, etc.
-- Pat
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