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| Safety Equipment (1172 Posts)
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DT/Chris
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On 1/13/2001
Hamm
wrote in from
(63.46.nnn.nnn)
For those of you that don't know DT & Chris, they don't hate each other. When face to face they are quite friendly with each other. So don't take this stuff too serious.
my .02. You'll go faster if your comfortable. Your not gonna drop 1400+ on a helmet you don't like. And if you do drop 1400+ on a helmet your gonna believe in it and that alone may make your faster.
Cya
Dave
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oh you guy!
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On 1/13/2001
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Boys, boys, boys...
What we have here is an old fashioned pissin match!
You two make me laugh! You're both a couple of knuckle heads... and I think next time I see you I (with the help of my brother) am going to make you guys hug! I'll take a picture and put it on my site... right next to the one that will show Chris kissing my luge (I haven't forgotten and won't let you forget either!)
Let's do a DT/Chaput comparison (you guys have more in common than you think):
Both these guys have huge hearts. They both give all they have inside of them to skating.
Both of you have huge balls. You scare the crap out of me with the stuff you try!
Both feel very stongly about how things should be done and make no appologies for your thoughts.
Both are extremly hard headed. Both like to win. Both like to be right.
Chris... you are probably the finest all around skater out there right now. You do suck at luge... but not many guys can touch you skating. And if there was a multi-contest that included freestyle, slalom, and speedboarding... you'd win the all around.
DT... you are a thinking mans speedboarder. You put an amazing amount of thought into your sport. You are probably the gutsiest man I know. You are moving up the ranks of skating at a very good clip because of these two attributes. Which is an amazing thing to me because you've only been skating for a few years. I personally look forward to watching your climb to the top of the podium!
Both of you guys are great. I like you both and would help either of you in anyway I could (as long is it doesn't require any money, very much time, or very much thought) I got your back.
As far as the helmets go... I don't like what I hear about either of them. Seriously, I think they are both incredibly dangerous for a novice to wear. They both have a design that's not conducive to max protection in a fall... If nothing else, I think that shoulder/neck/back injuries may increase with their use (which is better than head injuries!) My opinion only.
So for the novices who want to go fast... try the motorcycle helmets first and work your way up into the 50-60 mph range before you consider laying down a grand on a aero-helmet. They are not magic. They will give you the edge over another guy if all else is equal. But if your in the 35-45 mph range, the addition of these helmets won't magically make you 15 mph faster...
I will now step down off my soap box... and Chris/DT... XXXOOO to you both... HR
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"knoxk , knock: can i interrupt??"
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On 1/13/2001
Leo
wrote in from
(64.86.nnn.nnn)
Well i must say after i spend time and money reading those long arguments, heres my opinion.
1.- I thought that this website was supposed to be fun, educative, and an unlimited surce of information.
2.- i think i talk by the rest of the longboarders when i say that we appreciate amy help that you pros with X time riding have to tell us, you dont know how much have you help me in longboarders, o strongly believe that no matter the age you can always practice the sport you want, even if you are a 85 years wwf fighter.
3.- Most of us, specially me como here and try to imagine how could it be to ride with the best and that includes BOTH of you, you are great on what you do, both have a website of longnboarding info and BOTH are an unlimoted source of info.
4.- i wrote the same in the arguements on "whats the best trucks?"....if we want a real review of both helmets, i think that the best solution possible is that 4 riders, 2 experienced and 2 not so with much experience ride the same board with the same trucks, bearings, wheels, bushings, speedsuits, BUT different helmets and thats going to be your BEST review.
i dont know nothing about speedboarding, i dont know even that world record, but what i do know is that you are confusing a lot of ppl here, and thats not good if your intentions at the beggining of time was help other ppl.
my 2 bolivares.
leo
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Credibility
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On 1/13/2001
DT
wrote in from
(24.4.nnn.nnn)
This post is in regards to:
Nothing would delight me more than to have every amateur and pro listen to, and follow the advise of, a guy who has 25 years less skateboarding experience than I have. Someone who has never beat me in a race. Someone who tells people not to follow my advice on how to wedge trucks because "it only works for Randals and not other trucks". Everyone, PLEASE get a GoFast helmet and ride Independent trucks wedged thin ends out for speedboarding. I need all the help I can get.
First, i already openly apologised and explained why i thought that about the wedges, but you failed to mention that. i am a human and make mistakes, and i admit when i am wrong. i dont have a problem with pride.
Second, its sad to me that the reason you now skate is for fame and to be on tv. winning isnt everything Chris, we have only had two heats together at mammoth, you were healthy. I had recently dislocated my shoulder (ever have your shoulder pop out 7 inches?) and i was racing with a head cold, i was trying just to make it down the hill without falling off my board. I was also trying to maintain my points in the standings, which i did by placing 3rd at mammoth and 2nd behind Golter for the season. and its not like you smoked me, i was about 10 yards behind you and Mark and closing. Big deal.
Third, you tell everyone you have been skating for 25 years, its in your banner ad, etc. but your misleading everyone. You have only been skating for 5 years and you have only been speedboarding for 8 months. These are your own words before you became the guru you now are:
On 7/25/00 Chris Chaput wrote in from 63.168.xxx.xxx:
..I'd love to meet all the new kids on the block. I'm coming out of a twenty year retirement from competition and want to meet as many riders and test as many products as I can in as little time as possible...
and you have told me in person that you had taken a break from skating during those years.
By the way, what does 5 years of riding claywheels and doing handstands on a waterski have to do with present day speedboarding??
I first rode a skateboard 17 years ago and then i took a "break" with bmx riding, but i will never walk around bragging that i have been riding for 17 years. I also raced as a pro last March, but i dont brag that i am this great pro rider. In fact i personally believe there is only a small handful of riders that support themselves by skating/luging ... these are the true pros.
To me it seems that you cant believe that someone 25 years younger might know 1/2 as much as you know, or perhaps more, when it comes to the technical aspects of speedboarding. I have been speedboarding longer and have been fortunate enough to be able to have top riders work with and teach me. These include Gary Hardwick, Manu Atuna, Cliff Coleman, Sean Mallard, Lee Dansie, and Rick Kludy. I've also learned about aerodynamics from Richard Landingham and Jarret Ewanek.
But then again who am i? i havent beaten you? and when i do beat you, does that mean i will have suddenly earned your respect? proablly not, but I DON'T REALLY CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF ME.
ps. if you are such a great racer, why do you NEED an aero helmet and speed suit? why dont you race without them, are you scared? I look forward to racing with you in the EDI AMATEUR class this next year and if you beat me than i will be the first one to pat you on the back and say good race because to me, its not about winning but having fun!
Cliff Coleman once told me the key to racing longevity is not about beating other riders but about beating yourself and having fun. I hope to ride as long as he has and race when i'm 50.
cheers.
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Donkey 101
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On 1/13/2001 DT
wrote in from
(24.4.nnn.nnn)
WHY DO YOU ASK QUESTIONS THAT YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO????
I guess i will stoop to a childish level.
Exhibit A:
I'm not going to spend anymore time on this subject, i'm sure someone could spend a lot of time cleverly constructing a post that makes me look like a donkey and downplay everything i just said, while overstressing minor attributes of the "faster" helmet.
1. The Doc Go Fast helmet wraps your head in a large amount of special foam from NASA with 100% memory, the helmet is custom made to the size of your head, when you put it on it acts as a solid shock absorber. The Landingham hardly has any foam or protection in it, that what is in there, is so pinner its likely to be useless in the event of a crash. Chris, i was sitting right near you and Gary when he spoke of these crashes that hurt his shoulder, he also went on to credit the helmet for saving his life and if it had been any other helmet he said his neck would have likely been broken. Yet you failed to post this....See exhibit A
2.a. I dont know whose helmet is more aero and i dont act like i know everything about aerodynamics? but if Landingham helmets are so much better why didnt they help Sean or George win the tittle, they lost by only a mph or two. Or could it be that the differance between the two helmets are so minute one can't tell the differance in speedboarding applications. and if that is so why would one limit ones own safety?
2b. I dont give a flying f**K about speed skiers, this is SPEEDBOARDING your comparing apples to oranges. It was Richard who told me that a rider wouldnt notice any large differance until your reaching speedskiiers speeds. Again, if these helmets are so close in aerodynamics at speedboardings top speeds, than why would one pick a helmet with poorer visiblity and safety?
3. I'm sorry i'm not the all knowing guru, but i have never claimed or acted like i am, i do however say things as they are and come to the defense of those that arent present. I said several because i wasnt sure how many riders rode Landingham helmets. and i dont know what helmet George uses but what differance would it make if he did wear one? i never said anything along that line. Also i never said Sean wears a Go Fast, he wears a Hickey helmet because he says the Landingham helmet is dangerous. again ....see exhibit A
4.The AIS Speed Record event was held in 1998, at the end of the 1997 season Sean was the highest ranked speedboarder in the world! Now you may not know this, but those that ride balls out every run are bound to get hurt sooner or later. and i dont mean a stubbed toe or a sprained wrist. Sean rode last year with a 2nd degree seperated shoulder, (his other shoulder is still bad), fractured ribs, a bad back, cartilage that had been seperated from his rib, a bad knee and another one with almost no cartilage and a calcium deposit the size of a lime.
5. I dont know if simply changing a helmet would have changed the outcome, but i do know that wearing a helmet that robs you of confidence wont allow you to ride your best. again ....see exhibit A
6. Now your making Mark out to look like someone who cant make up his mind, when all he did at mammoth was try a new board (hey didnt you try a new board out last weekend?) and he did wear two helmets. First he wore a Landingham, but found it uncomfotable and he didnt feel confident with it on (IS ANYONE STARTING TO SEE A PATTERN?), he than put on his Hickey helmet and beat you with your superior Landingham. again .... see exhibit A
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Herbn head spin
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On 1/12/2001
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
Herbn, he means that you can turn your head and look back over or under your shoulder, not that your head turns while the helmet stays still. Both of these helmets (and hopefully all) fit snugly on your head. The Landingham is harder to "sneak peeks" out of because the helmet is left wider at the shoulders in order to pass air more cleanly over them.
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Opinions 101
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On 1/12/2001
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
EVERYONE'S opinion is biased, how could it possibly be otherwise?
Please DT, enlighten us.
1. You say that Jarret's helmet is "far SAFER", exactly what do you mean? Do you think that Carbon Fiber alone is stronger than Carbo Fiber with kevlar? How many times has Hardwick dislocated his shoulder and cited this helmet as the reason?
2. You say that you "laughed the hardest" about Landingham's helmets being more aero. Are you saying that Jarret's helmets are more aerodynamic? What is the basis for your conclusion? Why have speedskiers abandoned this design for decades now in favor of Richard's? Are you asking me to believe that Jarret's helmets are more aerodynamic under 100mph and that over 100mph Richard's are faster? Perhaps you should alert Detroit, Germany and Japan. They are under the impression that aerodynamics are important at speeds under 65mph.
3. When you say that there were "several riders with Landingham helmets", don't you mean exactly two riders, namely Sean and George? Why would you expect Sean to win the world speed record. The last time he placed in the top three in a speedboarding race was at St. George Utah in 1999 on the trucks that you described as the "Hickey Death Wobble" . He's abandoned them in favor of the "stable" Indy's and a GoFast helmet. George doesn't use Landingham or a GoFast now, I guess you forgot to mention that.
4. What is your definition of a "flawless tuck"? Does anyone else believe this about Sean's tuck or just you. If it's flawless and he uses a GoFast, he'd be winning every non-technical race, right?
5. How do you explain any person with "less drag" losing any straight, draft free gravity race? By definition, drag includes all resistance to motion whether it be by wind resistance, rolling resistance, friction, etc. Perhaps you are suggesting that Sean would have beaten Gary if only he had a GoFast helmet on?
6. You and I both know that Mark is constantly changing the boards, wheels, trucks and helmets. He wore two different helmets and rode two different boards at Mammoth alone. He's been riding several different boards since then. He has recently switched from Indy's to Randals. The real reason (you say) that he said he "can't believe he used his Landingham for as long as he did" is that he just got his GoFast a couple of months ago.
Nothing would delight me more than to have every amateur and pro listen to, and follow the advise of, a guy who has 25 years less skateboarding experience than I have. Someone who has never beat me in a race. Someone who tells people not to follow my advice on how to wedge trucks because "it only works for Randals and not other trucks". Everyone, PLEASE get a GoFast helmet and ride Independent trucks wedged thin ends out for speedboarding. I need all the help I can get.
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Catagory crossover
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On 1/12/2001 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Those Ewok) helmets sound cool,turning your head inside the helmet,i guess it sits on your shoulders?,but it does sound like treading that fine line between helmet and fairing.It's cool though,i like the idea.
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Pudding
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On 1/12/2001 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
Not to take any sides,but "the pudding" has more ingredients than just helmets,it's very possible to lose on the bestest most aeroest equipment,just go through a corner high and wide,looking like you're barely hanging on,oh oh their i go again.I do think that there are no aero effects that "kick in at 100 mph" every effect progressively increases at higher speeds,it may be considered minor and not worth the effort at slow speeds,but it doesn't go away,oops went over to the other side of this minor disagreement.:)If you win by an inch you still won.Maybe i'd be more serious and take up sides,if i rode with people who just left me in the dust until i anteed up and bought a fairing(oops helmet),but unfortunately this hasn't happened yet.
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Snell
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On 1/12/2001 DT
wrote in from
(24.4.nnn.nnn)
Mark,
i was reffering to the higher standards of the motorcycle rating.
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in defense of the turtle
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On 1/12/2001 DT
wrote in from
(24.4.nnn.nnn)
The paragraph about Gofast's helmets is a joke. I'm sorry but i havent laughed so hard in such a long time. The post is biased (my opinion). You buy all your gear from Landingham, and I feel you are HEAVILY influenced by what he tells you (I may be wrong, and please correct me if i am). I have come to this conclusion, by listening to what you have said in the past and from what i've learned from talking with Richard. I also have spent a lot of time learning and talking with Jarret. I have spent countless hours studying this subject and I have nothing but the up most respect for Richard Landingham. He is a good man, a great craftsman, and knows a lot about speedskiing.
In terms of speedboarding, the DR GO FAST helmet is far superior. Yes, its vision is far greater, its far more comfortable, you can even turn your head in it, its construction is better, it is far SAFER, and it currently holds the downhill speed record.
I have seen guys go down head first at over 55mph and get up perfectly fine without a concussion and with nothing more than a minor scratch! I'm sure if you dropped it off the empire state building it would shatter, but i have never seen or heard of one shattering. To say that, is like saying exkate's hubs melt at high speed. Yes in theory, i'm sure you could melt one, but no one ever does! These helmets are tough as nails, and have the track record to prove it.
Now the line about being more aero is proablly what i laughed the hardest on. Yes maybe they are faster at 140mph, but no skateboarder has gone that fast. Richard has told me that some of the improvements in his helmets dont even become recognizable until your reaching those high speeds over 100++++.
When they held the speed runs for the record, there were several riders with Landingham helmets, and several with GO Fasts, but the "inferior" Doc Go Fast "proved" to be the fastest. If the Landingham helmets were so much faster, they would have won the tittle. They had several riders using them (George Orton,by the way, why doesnt George ride his anymore? and Sean Mallard-who will never ride his again), and both were the most experienced with roll in ramps from years of pool skating. Yet they both couldnt overcome Gary Hardwick in his Doc Go Fast. You told me you saw pics of george with a dip in his tuck and that was the reason, so i'll agree with that, but Sean has a flawless tuck, and has less drag than Gary, but Sean couldnt overcome the higher speed with the "faster" helmet. That seems odd to me.
Also Mark Golter has been sponsored by Richard Landingham and has run his helmets and speed suits for years. Richard makes the best speedsuits, i'm sure you can testify to that. But what seems so "odd" to me is that Mark has hung up his Landingham in favor of the "slower" Doc Go Fast. Mark has told me that he will never go back and cant believe he used the Landinghams for as long as he did.
I'm not going to spend anymore time on this subject, i'm sure someone could spend a lot of time cleverly constructing a post that makes me look like a donkey and downplay everything i just said, while overstressing minor attributes of the "faster" helmet. The proof is in the pudding.
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Landingham
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On 1/12/2001 Craig
wrote in from
(196.34.nnn.nnn)
How much for the Landingham. I like the idea of its lastability. Is the visibility hindered in terms of looking up through your eyebrows, because that is the worst problem with motorbike helmets.
Basically though, unless I get myself a big sponsor it seems as though these helmets are a tad expensive!
A point which doesn't really matter: the landingham looks pretty darn funny!!!
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Aero Helmets
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On 1/11/2001
Chris Chaput
wrote in from
(63.168.nnn.nnn)
If you want something aerodynamic, there are currently only two "readily available" choices. They are still not that easy to get (you won't find them in stores).
The Dr. GoFast helmet made by Jarret Ewanek is the most popular. Most of the Dregs riders, Lee Dansie, Gary Hardwick, Mark Golter, Reed Lowery, Jimmy Flindt, Rick Kludy and others use them. It is comfortable, provides good visibility, and is fast. It is made of carbon fiber which is strong but brittle. The good news is that it will probably withstand a decent crash. The bad news is that it will shatter upon impact if the impact is too hard. Some call this a "feature", others a "bug". If you do crash in this helmet, you "should" retire it but at $1,200 most people simply won't. The shield snaps on and off (or hangs half off) which is nice. This helmet was originally designed by a German speedskier back in 1972 and looks cool.
Richard Landingham's helmet is also a speedskiing helmet. It is less comfortable and provides poorer visibility than the GoFast. It is made from a carbon fiber and kevlar weave cloth with special resins and is strong and flexible. It can withstand an incredible amount of abuse with only a few scratches to show for it. The difference between carbon fiber alone and a carbon fiber/kevlar combo is like regular glass and safety glass (in a car's windshield). One shatters and the other may crack but stays together and continues to protect. The shields on these helmets are awesome (although not easily removed) and NEVER fog, even though I have only two small breathe holes. I believe that these helmets provide superior aerodynamics to the GoFast, at the cost of comfort and visibility. Helmets of this design have gone over 140mph on snow. The faster the race is, the more important an aero helmet will be.
If I had to recommend a helmet to a racer, it would not be easy, but I would tell them to get the GoFast for the following reasons. The comfort and visibilty alone are important to most riders. The snap on/off visor is versatile. Since most people aren't going to retire the helmet after a crash, it wouldn't change their minds about the helmets tendency to shatter (I am not aware of any that have).
The last reason that I would recommend the GoFast is self serving. It seems that I am the only one who is willing to try and overcome the comfort and visibilty issues with the Landingham and so I can continue enjoy aerodynamic superiority in a helmet. As long as people keep singing the praises of the GoFast, they will never know what they are missing.
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Pro-tec helmet
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On 1/11/2001
Danny Connor
wrote in from
(205.188.nnn.nnn)
Hey Craig,
I have a Pro-tec helmet like VanBommel's and I like it. There are a few things about it though. It's just a regular pro-tec helmet that you see the guys using for vert and what-not in the X-games, it just has a face shield on it. So, like the other helmets, it comes with air-hoes. I work for a guy who does auto body and paint, so we have filled the holes in and are painting it too. I'm sure Dane did the same thing. It doesn't come wth a shield, so you'd have to make your own. I am kinda winging it with that, but I have an ok idea on what to do. Finally, it s a joke over 40 mph. The only reson I like it, is because they are small, light, and have good vision. You can see very well in a full tuck. It's up to you I you want to get one considering all the things that need to be done with it.I don't now where you live, so I'm not sure where you can get one. I had a friend get one for me. Good luck, an e-mail me if you've got any other questions. Later.
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Racing helmets
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On 1/9/2001 Craig
wrote in from
(196.34.nnn.nnn)
Okay, so I think the mtn bike helmets suck, I would rather find myself a nice motor bike helmet. The price is not all that different. But i have had recent attention drawn to the helmet that Dane van Bommel, and probably others ride with. It looks to be light, have good viz, and be quite aero. Does this sound true? Does anyone know what i'm talking about(NOT a dr go fast)? Is this helmet manufactured by Protec? How can I get one?
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Snell helmet ratings
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On 1/6/2001
Lansing
wrote in from
(24.218.nnn.nnn)
or "RS-98" like snowboard helmets, or...
While this won't answer all your questions and doesn't specifically address *downhill* skateboarding, you should check out the Snell site. Lots of good info.
http://www.smf.org/
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Snell Approval on Helmets
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On 1/5/2001 Blah
wrote in from
(209.245.nnn.nnn)
Hey DT,
When you say you recommend a DOT or Snell approved helmet if we go 45 mph or more regularly, to which Snell rating are you referring? Would that be the Snell "M-95" or "M-2000" motorcycle standard or the "N-94" multisport standard, or anyone of the others?
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Mountain Bike helmets
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On 1/5/2001 Caig
wrote in from
(196.34.nnn.nnn)
I was checking them out today, and i'm comfortable about their safety. I am worried about the aerodynamics. They have a chin guard, but no visor, so i suspect that when i put my face down in my tuck, it'll scoop a bit too much air. Other than that it seems to be a nice aerod shape.
Does anyone have any world changing thoughts on this for me?
Should I maybe try to get a motorbike helmet instead? The problem with a motorbike helmet is that it is very heavy and has poo poo visibility, whereas the mtn bike helmet is light with good vis.
??
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Mountain Biking helmets
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On 1/4/2001 Craig
wrote in from
(137.158.nnn.nnn)
I've come across some full face Mtn Bike helmets for a reasonable price. These are good quality. Does anyone know if they would be OK for bashing my face against the road with(i want to use it for speedboarding/racing). Would anyone know about the aerodynamic properties of one of these, i suppose you need to see it though.
Has anyone had success in making their own aerod helmet, landingham or dr go fast syle??
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Bell Moto III
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On 12/31/2000 clark502
wrote in from
(63.29.nnn.nnn)
Helmet looked like shot,but after a violent
bounce off the pavement my face is still pretty.
POINT:
If you have hookup with a helmet,Wear It!No matter
how goofy you think it looks on oneself.It beats
face reconstruction/Drain Bamage/and Mr.Grim!
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Rest
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On 12/30/2000 Herbn
wrote in from
(216.107.nnn.nnn)
I need to post on DT's crash,i almost put this in "crash" oops,have heard this many times older guys who claim to be so tired from "getting in shape" they don't do well in what they are getting in shape for!"Man i sucked wind on that ride,i did a killer legs workout in the gym yesterday"I'm not saying don't workout,but you don't need to be in the gym or running bleachers everyday and then skating,mountainbiking,whatever...in your spare time.I stopped lifting cause i don't need the body mass,occasional pushups,pullups,crunches,and stretches do fine,maybe lifting for a few years at some point in your life makes for a nice base to fitness.
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Vigor
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On 12/29/2000 DT
wrote in from
(216.126.nnn.nnn)
1-800-VIGOROU(S)
1-800-844-6768
This is there distribution center phone number, they proablly wont sell you a helmet directly, but they will be able to tell you where to get one. and if no one is in your area, they might sell you one.
Last time I checked they were out of the Vamoose and were expecting some in near the end of this month. I also wouldnt be surprised if no one is there until after New Years.
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helmets
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On 12/29/2000
leo
wrote in from
(146.18.nnn.nnn)
thanx DT, and kaylee for supporting my question.
head safe
leo
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vigor vamoose
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On 12/29/2000
david
wrote in from
(209.178.nnn.nnn)
ok, after searching vigors web site i decided i would buy the vamoose. I went to the dealer section to try to locate a dealer in the sf/bay area. this list has not been updated in a very long time. I called about 10 stores, none of them even carryed vigor helmets. Does anyone know of a store in the bay area that acually sells vigor helmets, particualy the vamoose model.
ps, thanks for all the info DT!
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Helmets
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On 12/29/2000
Kaylee
wrote in from
(209.43.nnn.nnn)
Thanks DT, that pretty much answers my previous question and many other ones as well.
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