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| Region: Europe (5207 Posts)
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Ramblin'
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On 1/9/2002 Sam Gordon
wrote in from
(193.203.nnn.nnn)
In other words, I'm with Lee!
My weekend travelling capacity is usually governed by Friday evening ingestion. So is my balance.
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Just another rambler
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On 1/9/2002
Sam Gordon
wrote in from
(193.203.nnn.nnn)
We have already heard that skateboarding is very much an individual pursuit, one that can be executed any time of day or night, without the hindrances of a pitch or team gathering. It is also a sport that does not require extensive and expensive travel. We can all skate from our front doors and outwards. I learned to pump by going to the corner shop for cigarettes (until the new year kicked in, godammit). Now, that is not a recommendation, but as regards seeing other like-minded souls in my area who could offer up competition and advice, last year there were very few. Fewer still were the ways in which any active skaters could be contacted. The NCDSA has been instrumental in rekindling an interest in slalom, and through the European forum has allowed UK skaters to communicate and congregate in order to develop it's own slalom environment, visible in the recently formed UKSSA.
That the Slalom World Championships are in regional USA (didn't the UK invent skateboarding because we have little surf) does not ill affect our current skating scenario. I have yet to race against someone other than roller-bladers and micro-skooters through the courses set up in various London parks.
That I may not qualify for the World Championships as an ameteur does not phase me (although I might unknowingly be ranked in the UK top 50 owning, as I do, a slalom board) because I'm sure that if we make our races some of best and most tightly competed then the Champions will feel compelled to come to the UK.
Wayne's World 2 moment over.
I don't know and I'm not too worried if I've made a point, but slalom-boarding doesn't require as many champions as in the boxing spheres. Currently over here we need just enough people to compete for fun, for honour, for prizes. That is what should be encouraged.
P.S. Procrastination's best in the off-season.
Sam
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Uhmmmmm!!!
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On 1/9/2002 Clingfilm
wrote in from
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Keeping silent.
Not saying a thing!!!!
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Chris @the 'ouse
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On 1/9/2002 SSofS
wrote in from
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Coolio... c ya there
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SSofS
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On 1/9/2002
chris
wrote in from
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yeah, will be there about 7 rich
matt is away at the mo but I might persuade Will to come along.
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I'm a champ
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On 1/9/2002
Longboardbuddha
wrote in from
(62.31.nnn.nnn)
Oh dear some arguments or spirited debate? Remember in the end its all about bombing down an incline avoiding cones and or holes in da road. However you in the States or us in Europe decide to amalgamate rules and regs and agree on an umberella organisation each individual is still a champion in their own right.
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Clarification
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On 1/9/2002
adam trahan
wrote in from
(208.203.nnn.nnn)
I hope that [snipping for brevity] does not change the person who made the post's original intent. I strive to not change the feeling of each of your post, and want the original intent to be retained when I make the snip. I don't like doing this, but in this case, it may help in stating my opinion.
This Northern California Downhill Skateboard Europen Forum discussion on the TLP series is actually very informative, and polite. Everyone has managed so far in voicing their opinion and concerns. As a spectator and a enthusiast, it is important for me to believe in what I support. What has been presented so far is enlightening. It is also paramount to understand the intent from the people who will present these races.
I would ask that a member of TLP state just what they are presenting as far as what the races stand for in regards to "World Championship or Series" and when that final at Morro Bay has been run, when the slalom skateboarder racer stands on the podium and holds the trophy, what does that stand for (fastest in that "worlds" or series or ???) I present this question with respect, out of respect, and for respect of the race organization and the racers participating.
In regards to this forum, I like what many of you have to say.
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On 1/9/2002 michael wrote in from 195.92.xxx.xxx:
[snipped for brevity]
A single worlds' would be great thing, and for it to be held at the centre of this resurgence make absolute sense to me., ie, in the US.
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On 1/9/2002 lee wrote in from 213.123.xxx.xxx:
Hi all, i think that for this year we should just run as many races as we can and then worry about a world championship next year. The main thing we need to do is get a good amount of riders and public awareness before we get ahead of oursleves. [snipped for brevity]
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On 1/9/2002 psYch0Lloyd wrote in from 24.148.xxx.xxx:
I also would like to see the race series include locations in other countries, calumniating in one big event that can be truly World Class.
So put on your races and if I am not able to compete I can at least guarantee you that you will have another pair of hands, and eyes to make sure that things run smoothly. [snipped for brevity]
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Discu ssion at a truly global forum (internet) will serve to strengthen, NOT tear down a World Champion title if it is agreed upon by the community it serves.
Agree?
My intent is to speak my opinion as a spectator, a casual enthusiast, and an informed slalom skateboarder based on a stance of respect.
TLP, can you clarify in light of what has developed and what has been presented?
Best Regards,
adam trahan
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Race Venues
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On 1/9/2002 SSofS
wrote in from
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Thanks Alan! Me and Chris are sussing out a possible venue tonight.
Chris, you still coming?
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world peace
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On 1/9/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
I think Lee has a point there, getting things organized at the local level will help build towards a races of larger scale. GRS/GRASS has kicked this off with chapter members here in the US, the UK, and Venezuela (so far) in the hopes of assisting the more localized activities to spur the growth of slalom skateboarding as a recognized sport and promote involvement. Still other organizations are in the process of being formed USSSF for one, and as mentioned here earlier, the UKSSA. Organizations no matter what moniker they chose should keep in mind the international nature of this activity we are involved in and for that reason GRS/GRASS is willing to support you in any way we can.
I also would like to see the race series include locations in other countries, calumniating in one big event that can be truly World Class.
So put on your races and if I am not able to compete I can at least guarantee you that you will have another pair of hands, and eyes to make sure that things run smoothly.
Alan Sidlo
Knucklehead Racing Team
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RE: Races
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On 1/9/2002
lee
wrote in from
(213.123.nnn.nnn)
Hi all,
i think that for this year we should just run as many races as we can and then worry about a world championship next year.
The main thing we need to do is get a good amount of riders and public awareness before we get ahead of oursleves.
I suggest to start we should have a rider hook up, once every two weeks. Get as many riders as possible, do some training and share hints, tips and knowledge to help newer riders get into the sport.
How many people would be up for this, and how far are you willing to travel for it?
let me know
lee
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worlds
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On 1/9/2002
michael
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
Scabs, thanks for your input.(honest!) As I said, the past is the past, the Issa comps are in the past. I also said that a 'World series' 'would' make me laugh, and if you are right that the series of Races proposed don't form a 'World' championship then there is no problem.
'Would', to me implies something that may yet happen, something that is not set in stone. A single 'worlds' would be great thing, and for it to be held at the centre of this resurgence make absolute sense to me., ie, in the US.
I look forward to the day where a world championship race is held in different countries, but as I see it at the moment, a proper world 'series' would be very hard to justify fairly at this moment in time.
I don't want to appear negative, I think its great that races are being organised, all over, and I believe that can only be good. I wish everyone who is trying to do races all the best.
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World Championship
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On 1/9/2002
Gerhard
wrote in from
(195.3.nnn.nnn)
hey guys what kind of world championship is this.
What sports you are doing ????? Couldn´t figure that out...
Well yes i like the worldseries (CA, CA, CA, CA, CA,) Sorry guys i found it . Its all about slalom.
wish you all the best.... Gerhard.
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World Championship
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On 1/8/2002
Scabs
wrote in from
(66.20.nnn.nnn)
Michael,
As odd as it may seem, I defend the TLP`s rights to host the World Championship.
At the bottom of this post, you`ll see Jack`s entire post about the the TLP`s upcoming series. You`ll see that at NO POINT did they call it the World Series. You`ll also see that they in fact will be awarding a special category for US CHAMP. It is quite clear that they are expecting qualfyers from OTHER events other than there own.
My concern is that they have not yet set their dates in stone. The clause "Subject to Change" scares me that if there were any changes, it would`nt really affect those on the west coast as much as those that travel. I also think the way the dates were proposed, it will be difficult for other organizers on the east coast, or euro coast, heck anywhere but the west coast, to offer venues and expect competitors to show up. But that`s my own gripe and even so, I still thank Jack and Don and Henry for what efforts they put forth.
Keep in mind that skateboarding originated here and the ISSA held it`s worlds in europe only. Since Jack and Don and Henry started this new round of competition, it`s only natural that they host the World Championship.
Here`s Jack`s post in it`s entirety...
On 1/3/2002 Trilateral Partners wrote in from 216.207.xxx.xxx:
TriLateral Partners
Presents...
FCR Series
2002 Pro Racing
Sponsors:
Event- ------------------Location----------------Dates
The Battle By The Bay - San Francisco, CA *****23-24 March
The Catalina Classic - Avalon, CA *************20-21 April
The Sierra Cup - Tahoe, CA **********************18-19 May
The High Peaks Drifter - Breckenridge, CO ******15-16 June
The La Costa Open - La Costa, CA ***************20-21 July
Rose Festival Classic - Portland, OR *********10-11 August
The Cowboy Cup - Jackson Hole, WY ****************7-8 Sept.
2002 World Championships - Morro Bay, CA *******4-6 October
Note: Dates/Venues to Subject Change
Format
Each FCR Series stop will be a two-day event except for the 2002 World Championship which will be scheduled over three days. Each Series event will consist of two races, a dual format race and a second specialty event, which may or may not be a dual race (e.g. Super G, Tight Slalom, Giant Slalom, Bank Slalom etc.), which compliments the venue. Racers will compete in either Pro Class or Open Class. The courses for Pro and Open may differ to accommodate the different experience levels typically found between the classes. Dual events will be in a standard 32-racer single elimination format with seeding based on the best of two qualifying runs. Single course races will be won based on the best two combined runs of four.
Classes
Racers will be free to self classify as either a Pro Racer or an Open Class Racer. An Open Class racer may decide to re-classify him or herself as a Pro Racer at any time, but once a racer classifies him or herself as a Pro Racer they must compete as a Pro for the remainder of the season.
Rankings / World Championship Qualifying
During the course of the season racers will be awarded points in their respective classes for their finishes in the various Series events. In addition, consideration will be given for successful finishes in events put on by other organizers for selection for at-large bids for the Pro World Championship.
Pro World Championship
There will be only 48 slots available to compete for the World Pro Champion Title. The top Series racers will be seeded 1-16 based on their finish in the season points standings. These racers will also receive a first round Bye. In addition, There will be a 32-racer elimination round. 16 of these 32 spots will be available for those racers who finish 17-32 in the Series standings. 10 spots will be At-Large Bids selected by the organizers (TLP), at their sole discretion, and 6 spots will be available to the top 6 finishers in a qualifying race conducted on Friday of the race weekend. These racers will be seeded in a 2 run qualifying round and will race a dual elimination race. The 16 surviving racers will then face the 1-16 seeded racers in a normal 32 man dual elimination.
Amateur (Open) World Championship
In keeping with the desire to expand and promote the sport of skateboard racing, there will be 48 slots available for those who wish to compete for the amateur title. The only condition is that the racers cannot have declared themselves as Pro Racers in the season. The top 16 racers in the FCR Series open class will be seeded 1-16 in the Amateur World Championship. 32 additional racers will be seeded into the race brackets based on a two run qualifying round and will race a dual elimination race. The 16 surviving racers will then face the 1-16 seeded racers in a normal 32 man dual elimination.
U.S. Pro and Amateur Champion
These titles will be awarded to the highest ranked U.S. citizens in the end of Series point standings.
Race Information
The entry fee for each FCR Series event is US$100. This allows entry in both or either races per event and will not be pro-rated for those entering only one race at an event. There will be a strictly enforced 100 racer combined limit for the Pro and Open Classes. In order to guarantee participation, entry fees must be paid. On-line registration alone is insufficient. The first 100 racers to register and pay will be included in each regular season event.
Point System
Points will be awarded for finishing positions in every race during the season:
Position ----------Single Course ---------------Dual Course
----------------------Points----------- -------------Points
1 ---------------------100 ---------------------------100
2 ----------------------70 ----------------------------70
3-------------- -------- 50 ----------------------------50
4-------------- ---------40 ----------------------------40
5 ----------------------38 ----------------------------35
6 ----------------------36 ----------------------------35
7 ----------------------34 ----------------------------35
8 ----------------------32 ----------------------------35
9 ----------------------30 ----------------------------25
10------------- ---------28-----------------------------25
11- ---------------------26-------------------------- ---25
12----------------------24-------------- ---------------25
13----------------------23-- ---------------------------25
14-------------- --------22-----------------------------25
15-- --------------------18--------------------------- --25
16----------------------17--------------- --------------25
17----------------------16--- ---------------------------8
18--------------- -------15------------------------------8
19--- -------------------14---------------------------- --8
20----------------------13---------------- --------------8
21----------------------12---- --------------------------8
22---------------- ------11------------------------------8
23---- ------------------10----------------------------- -8
24-----------------------9----------------- -------------8
25-----------------------8----- -------------------------8
26----------------- ------7------------------------------8
27----- ------------------6------------------------------ 8
28-----------------------5------------------ ------------8
29-----------------------4------ ------------------------8
30------------------ -----3------------------------------8
31------ -----------------2------------------------------8
32-----------------------1------------------- -----------8
Inquiries:
trilateralp artners@hotmail.com
oldskateguy@aol.com
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World Series??
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On 1/8/2002
Michael
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
I was going to keep silent, but its not in my nature. I cannot see how a series can call itself 'World' if it is so US centric. World Champonship yes...as that is ONE race. A US series calling itself 'World' series makes me snigger. And most Europeans too I would guess, not a good way of being taken seriously. I understand the points about the past, about skiing, about Morrow Bay, but that is history. The Past, gone....The world is a big place, but not big enough for lots of 'World' series. That is exactly the right way of annoying all European, Asian, African etc skaters. European championship yes, American championship yes etc. I hope you get my drift.
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UKSSA
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On 1/8/2002
chris @ lush
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
I'm happy to contribute prizes, possibly some quantities of cash later in the year. Looks like you need more people out of London! Rich (SSofS) and I here in Sheffield are starting to cook some ideas up, been scouting around for an outdoor location. We've got an good spot here right in the middle of the UK to attract riders from everywhere, I'll see what we can sort out. Also the indoor comp at The House ...
as for "European section of the Northern Californiam Downhill Skateboard Association", I can set up a specific European version of this forum if needs be. There are already the forums on Lush Longboards, but no specific slalom yet, only the proposed race calendar, which needs more content!
(Adam - do you feel that you need some work taken off your hands or are you happy hosting us Europs for a while?)
I know a guy who's got ideas about filming a vid and is writing a skate book at the mo, he did the Independent cover shoot for us - Martin you out there? - I'll see what he thinks about pushing the TV coverage side of things.
keep it rolling, cheers for the Turner Mike :)
see you at The House tomorrow Rich
chris
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Peace
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On 1/8/2002 adam trahan
wrote in from
(204.152.nnn.nnn)
An open forum is better Don, this way, others will see your point and mine and we all can learn from this.
Another FCR team member at another forum posted "war" and I took this as what you were doing. This was wrong, reading your re:re post, I see that your point and I retract my statement.
I hold no personal issue with FCR series. I just do not understand the declaration. It is not your responsiblility to make me understand, it is mine. I've invested some time into finding out about the current ISSA view point and making sure that people in slalom racing promotion didn't forget who did their homework and who carried the torch when America was asleep. Now, I am simply making informed commentary/opinion on the series based on my personal research. I still like what it is about and have continually posted this.
I am not a podium experienced racer, just a spectator at this point. I do plan on attending/racing a couple of events and I will travel to the Eastern USA for a single race as well. As long as I am not attacked, then I will support FCR by my attendance and enthusiasm, I don't have to buy the whole idea though.
I really like the racing part, this is easy for me, the organization portion is difficult for me to digest. My critique is mine and it is not critical, it is general and informed.
Thank you Mr.O'Shei for your further post, I seek knowledge on all aspects of slalom skateboard racing. I am definately learning every day through this web site and in e-mail.
Best Regards,
adam trahan
P.S. I still want to trade the Santa Cruz "Graphite Loaded" for the Comets and the Don O'Shei (signed) model as you have offered. I like what you are about, even though I may not agree with you. Please let me know the details in e-mail soon.
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RE Torquay rider
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On 1/8/2002
paul
wrote in from
(195.92.nnn.nnn)
Hi thanks guys, yeah I live on higher warberry road although the part I am on is real steep, too steep really to skate in control I have gone down the paths on lower warberry road though and also have done ilsham road from the kents pub down to where there is a big block of flats, that was in the summer though. if anyone else is interested in longboarding in torquay give me an email. cheers......paul
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Comment (war!!)
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On 1/8/2002
Clingfilm
wrote in from
(194.154.nnn.nnn)
Wow!!!
I only made this as a casual remark because I thought the FCR series is west coast based, and we over here have always commented that the World Championships in many sports is purely US based, because they are US sports. Quite rightly we have some too, God don't mention Criket, although we are not too good at that now.
But now I come back to it the issue it is up to the rest of us to get off our arses and set-up our versions, as you say Adam, qualifying for the final. We could have anyone who can organise, say a series of three competitions, and if you perform well, how you will measure that I have no idea, you go to the final.
BUT the only way you can do that is if the finals expenses are paid for, because funding shouldnot be a source of discrimination, say for the Russians etc.
Whatever we do will open another can or worms. There can be no right. If FCR organise I will run their courses. If I organise then they will run under my rules. It is the ability to ride everything as best as you can that is important.
Don, I like the idea of the reserved places. It makes sense but it may be difficult when there are too many applicants. People may arrive, expecting automatic clearence, only to fail to qualify.
I can not make Morro Bay due to the timing (not equipment) to my regret, but I do look forward to skating on an international stage over a variety of different events.
As with all things on this site I agree with many sides of the argument. The issue is really I guess, if you make a world contest then it must be practical for "non-locals" (whatever that is) to enter without ruining their private lives. I still vote for a short sharp series 9 days each continent, 2 or 3 contests each.
Chris
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Racing
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On 1/8/2002
Don O'Shei
wrote in from
(64.168.nnn.nnn)
Adam
What about my post constitutes a "war" or is impolite?
I merely disagree with your opinions and criticize the thoughts and assumptions that underlie your opinions. I am comfortable discussing these issues either publicly or privately although I prefer an open forum.
What have i posted that you find to be incorrect? Lets disuss.
Don O'Shei
Fat City Racing
TriLateral Partners
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Re: Racing
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On 1/8/2002
adam trahan
wrote in from
(204.152.nnn.nnn)
Thanks for joining in Mr.O'Shei please do not see this as an attack.
You can read my words here and be finished and take them as static or you can contact me and get straight to the person who wrote them.
This is what I have do when I wonder about a race or an organization. I contacted the person in e-mail and then read what they wrote to me directly and formed my opinion after the research.
Why is there is a "war" with anyone who questions FCR?
I still will enjoy the racing and respect the amount of effort that goes into the promotion. I simply disagree with the approach. I am certainly being polite about my OPINION.
You have me all wrong, I am not a Pied Piper looking to be persuasive...
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Racing
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On 1/8/2002
Don O'Shei
wrote in from
(64.168.nnn.nnn)
Chris and Adam,
Your points are to some extent factually incorrect. Chris I believe it is incorrect to say that non-americans cannot compete for the World Championships. Last year at least 25% of the finalists where non-american and there would likely have been more if the Italian racers would not have had some problems with their plane tickets. This year their are 16 places reserved for racers who have not placed in the top 32 in the series. Frankly, if after removing the top 32 Pro racers who are already seeded you can't place in the top 6 at the Friday qualifier you probably have no business racing Pro and should probably race Open. In any event there are multiple avenues for non-american racers to qualify.
1. Race the Series and place in the top 32
2. Come to the Friday qualifier and place in the top 6
3. Petition the organizers for an At-Large bid and show some reason why you should race Pro
4. Race Open and win the Amateur World Championships
Lets not forget that for many, many years the Europeans ran the ski World Cup and World Championships entirely in Europe and the vast majority of the races are still in Europe. If you were an American you had to travel to race. When the US demonstrated that there was sufficient interest to make a US race viable then there were US races. Thats the way it goes. When Europe demonstrates that there is sufficient interest to support the expense and time commitment of a Pro race then there will be one. After all how many ISSA events were held in the US or Asia or Latin America. I'm no expert but I'd guess very few. Yet they still held "World Championships" regularly. The reason that you guys are racing at all is that Jack Smith put on the 2001 World Championship which you now disrespect. Get over it. If Maurus Stroble had won at Morro Bay would this conversation make any sense.
Adam as to your opinions on the FCR Series you are entitled to them. They might be more persuasive if you had the credibility derived from spending your own time and money to promote the sport. As of right now you are a spectator and talk is easy. The people who are putting on these races have jobs and families and will likely lose money doing it, so deciding where they should put on the races is a little nervy.
As to the ISSA I have been very active in organizing races for some time and I have never heard a single word from them and have never seen the slightest change in their website. If they are active at all which I doubt, they have certainly not demonstrated the track record that would give them any authority to regulate the slalom world. Even at their height they were never more than a european organization despite the inclusion of one or two Americans.
Don O'Shei
Fat City Racing
TriLateral Partners
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Re: comment
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On 1/8/2002
adam trahan
wrote in from
(204.152.nnn.nnn)
Hi Chris,
We should voice our opinions and talk about ideas respectfully in order for the words to ring. I enjoy talking with you about ideas that we both are interested by a truly global medium.
It's a tough thing to make sport comparisons with slalom skateboarding. The sports that you mention here (baseball & football) are team sports and they harbor a whole lot more money and POWER. With this in mind, I'm not sure I agree with your American comparison/perspective. Certainly I am not offended though and I understand where you are coming from.
Skateboarding is a indivdual pursuit and is quite unique in that it is relatively inexpensive in comparison to other like pursuits. So with this in mind, I think you would be better suited to make a comparison in regards to American declarations for a world title. Look at who is running the races and why they are doing it. When you formulate your hypothisis, I bet that my opinion matches yours pretty closely.
In regards to a slalom skateboard racing world championship title, I can not agree with the FCR series. This series does not even represent the whole of the United States of America, it is for the most part a Western States series. It is my personal opinion that it could be a part of ISSA and decide a winner from this region. In short, this series of races should be a regional qualifier, and a part of the ISSA format. The Eastern United States has their qualifiying series, then the two have a United States Title race and then on to a World Title. This seems logical to me.
The ISSA as it stands should be the governing body for a World Title. This is a system that is already in place, and I've made my point as an American at a Northern California Downhill Skateboard Association web site slalom forum and now at the European forum on the Northern California Downhill Skateboard Association.
Do you get what I am trying to say? There should be an order for things. Personally, I think the sport (racing and governing association) should be run by enthusiasts who have no monetary investment in the promotion. Let the companies who stand to gain from promotion, support the association and the races. Run it like a true non-profit organiation with a global perspective. Let's really grow the sport through out the GLOBE and on to the Olympics.
Look at this web site, take a look at the top of the page, what does the name say? Here we have a European section of a Northern California Downhill Skateboarding Association. I've made mention to the web master of this site to "change the name" to reflect the true citizenship that it harbors. I made this point as an American.
I don't agree with this "American Perspective" that you have, it is too much of a blanket statement, but I understand your point of view. The self declaration of a World Title is a self declaration of a World Title. I still participate because if I withdraw, then my words are lost under the blanket. I believe in what I say as an American and a Global citizen.
What is most important is that we are having races and there is interest and the sport is growing. I consider slalom skateboard racing a viable olympic discipline, on the other hand, there is one American promoter who does not. I tried my global perspective with him too, didn't work.
Good talking with you Chris, please, send me some URL's of non American slalom web sites, I'm really interested in taking a look.
Have fun!
adam trahan
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Only Americans could hold a world series where only Americans can attend. Check out the world baseball and football competitions. Can you imagine the World Cup footbal with only European teams.
Chris
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Comment
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On 1/8/2002 Clingfilm
wrote in from
(195.195.nnn.nnn)
Only Americans could hold a world series where only Americans can attend. Check out the world baseball and football competitions. Can you imagine the World Cup footbal with only European teams.
Chris
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Cannes
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On 1/8/2002 Clingfilm
wrote in from
(195.195.nnn.nnn)
Lets do it. Cannes festival.
When? I arrive, I think, on 3rd Feb in Nice. Ileave on the 9th. I am not sure what time.
Jean when do you want to do this. I will be availble when you want, but week days seem easiest. I don't know where you are in France but I look forward to meeting you. I can bring arounf 30-40 cones.
Give more info. Anyone else up for it.
Chris
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ESSA
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On 1/8/2002
psYch0Lloyd
wrote in from
(24.148.nnn.nnn)
I am keeping an Events Schedule on the G.R.A.S.S. Roots Association of Slalom Skateboarders site for easi access on the events locally (in the US) and abroad so that you may easily access this information. Feel free to email me with any information and updates on your events so that it can be reflected there as well.
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