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| Skateboarding Law (490 Posts)
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Skateboard Ban "Will Not Be Passed" in Cape May, New Jersey
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On 12/6/2003 SKATEBOARDING IS A CRIME
wrote in from
(68.86.nnn.nnn)
Skateboard Ban "Will Not Be Passed" in Cape May, NJ
http://skateboarddirectory.com/articles/483134_skateboard_ban_will_not_be.html
Excerpts from the Article:
The mayor of Cape May, Jerome E. Inderwies, said "I was a kid once, like everybody else", and reportedly also said that the ordinance will no longer be considered, and is not expected to resurface any time soon.
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As Mayor Inderwies says, “We have an ordinance on the books that meets all the legalities of the do’s and do not’s."
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Apparently many skateboarders and their supporters had sent in letters on the subject to their newspapers and representatives, and were planning to attend the recently-cancelled December 16th public hearing on the issue.
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According to Richard Degener of the Cape May County News, "Skateboard teenagers have been swamping the media with letters protesting the ordinance, some coming from other states including Ohio * and North Carolina *".
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San Luis Obispo skateboard law: very restrictive
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On 12/5/2003
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
(12.224.nnn.nnn)
WOW! San Luis Obispo prohibits skateboards on all streets and prohibits skateboards on many sidewalks.
10.76.010 Use of prohibited on streets and sidewalks in downtown area.
A. No person upon roller skates, including skateboards, or riding in or by means of any coaster, toy
vehicle, or similar device shall go (1) upon any roadway in the city, or (2) upon any sidewalk in the
downtown area, the outer boundaries of which area are described as follows:
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California State Skateboard Law
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On 12/5/2003
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
(12.224.nnn.nnn)
Two sections (out of 29 sections) of California law apply to skateboards. The first is a section about pedestrians, and the second is a section about bicycles.
My interpretation:
1) Skateboards are allowed unless specifically prohibited. Local agencies are granted the right to prohibit bicycles, pedestrians, skateboards, etc from the use of the roadways.
2) Skateboarders under the age of 18 must wear a helmet.
3) You cannot park a skateboard on the road or on a sidewalk if it will obstruct the flow of traffic.
So most of the anti-skateboard law in California must be at the county/city level?
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=6866347073+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=6866347073+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
-- Pat Chewning
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The Heavy Law
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On 12/5/2003
Eddy
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
Last weekend a County Sheriff ran me off from one of the local hills. As I was leaving I inquired about Law Enforcement training. I let the Officer know that I would be more than happy to gain 100lbs extra pounds. He emerged from his squad car and stated " If I were you I hit the road BOY, Comprende " I thought it was better to leave at that time. Eddy Texas Outlaw
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Fines VS. Legal Battle
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On 12/5/2003 Sketchmaster
wrote in from
(4.22.nnn.nnn)
Brady: With time and materials my equivalent costs for a civil case are around $500. Far more than the fine I would usually be facing. I was totally stoked on winning my top one which was $1400. That one was not only a moral victory but a financial victory. Usually cases like this are a net loss whether you win or lose. Besides, if I wind up in civil court on a major case I'm not going to feel like an infant walking into court because I have already warmed up on the smaller cases. Going outside of skateboarding you can find things like unqualified individuals masquerading as judges. Their exact job title was "Legilative Administrative Commisioner" in one court that we had here. The placard on his bench read "Judge". I believe there are laws regarding impersonating a judge in most areas. They discontinued the practice and modified the venue before I could legally challenge the impersonation but the same may be happening in a civil court near you. You should have seen everyone's face the day I showed up in court immediately after being informed of this fact. Everyone was doing there "Yes, your Honors" and "No, your Honors" and I threw out my "Yes, Legislatislative Administrative Commissioner X". Everyone was looking around the room at each other wondering what had just happened because they were totally confused by what I meant and the commisioner got bent. Before that he was all smiles and "How do you do?"
I ruined his whole week with a one liner. I lost that one.
I think that was $75. One of the fondest memories of my life calling a government official on his sh*t...Priceless.
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property damage
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On 12/5/2003
Slim
wrote in from
(67.119.nnn.nnn)
I guess there are two reasons sited for making skateboarding illegal.
1. it is a liability issue for the city - either the skaters themselves might sue, or pedestrians might sue if hit by a skater. This should be handled in other ways that do not prohibit skating. I.e. skaters skate at their own risk (the "dangerous activity" classification has made this pretty much true already and is why cities can now build skateparks) and as for pedestrians, they should just realize that "s#@! happens" and its not the cities fault. They can sue the skater if they want (just as motorists sue each other and not the city - in 99% of cases).
2. property damage is caused. I still think this is largely an issue of aesthetics. We've built stupid cement and metal structures all over our natural environment and in my view there is nothing we can do to these structures that would make them any uglier. They shouldn't be there in the first place and at least skateboarding on them allows them to provide some benefit to the population that they don't provide by just sitting there covering up the earth. Even if, say a cement bench, becomes unusable as a seat because skaters have made it dirty, we should consider how many citizens used the bench for skating vs. how many would have used it as a seat in the first place. Because most of these structures are simply unused by the population and are just eyesores.
-Slim
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funnin'
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On 12/5/2003 DAve G
wrote in from
(65.177.nnn.nnn)
Sketchy,
Of course I was joking!! I work in the whitewater industry and we get sued over a dozen times a year, Even w/ a fairly in depth release of liability signed by all people still take us to court w/ silliness such as "You didn't tell me I could sprain an ankle while walking back to the raft after I fed my over weight ass at lunch" Even had parents sue for mental distress caused because.."They didn't know the boat could flip and we'd swim" etc... etc..
If elected I shall inact a law forbidding all frivelous lawsuits taken on contingency, and to make any lawyer attempting such actions to re-pay 10 fold the monies it cost the courts to entertain their motions!! Do I hear an AMEN? Besides I reckon the Feds would make me repave the entire lot of 4.5 acres for defacing Govt. property ,by putting almost 200 spray painted dots on the asphalt.. ( I even borrowed 2 colors from mainenance crews) heh heh heh
I say skate at will and pay if you get busted!! He'll I even paid a 75.00 fine for "wreckless endangerment" for kayaking a section of river that was in flood stage and access roads were washed away so I had to continue thru the gorge @ 95,000 cfs (the mean flow is 5000. Stupid yes..would I do it again? nah't no more was it worth the fine? HELL YES!!!!!!!!!
Enjoy,
Dave G
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flaming forums
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On 12/5/2003
Brady
wrote in from
(65.81.nnn.nnn)
Sketchmaster,
Yes, your original paraphrase was correct. I didn`t mean to dispute that but rather point out that quite often it is just the exact opposaite that goes on here.
I actually find your posts quite informative.
As to challenging laws, I guess I`m getting too old to test the authorities and would rather pick up my skate and move along. And when I have received tickets in the past, I just pay them as it would cost me more to take time off of work and try to challenge them.
My contention is it`s generally easier to abide by a cops wishes even if you may be fully within your own rights.
Smile and skate again another day ;-)
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Bending and Mending
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On 12/5/2003 Sketchmaster
wrote in from
(4.22.nnn.nnn)
Dave G: Yeah, Toft ran a custom axle deal on his hangers and I don't think the wheels were spaced out or anything so they were butted up to one another 2 on each side of the hanger. I assume you're being facetious when referencing suing the feds regarding your injury. You danced and now you get to pay the piper. I've torn myself up on pretty much every jurisdictional type of property and have never cried to the curators of said property regarding compensation. This is probably the main root of where the govt started the "limited use" type of logic regarding use of public property. much of what is now considered "off limits" was once considered normal to be enjoyed by everyone. Not related to skating but related to trespassing: I was at a paid entrance event where there was a temporary cut in power due to someone hitting a power pole. Management was attempting to force everyone to leave without rendering a refund. I knew that I was not going to form a political union with 400 strangers in a few minutes so I had to come up with another idea knowing that if I could keep everyone there that I would have some kind of leverage. During the next 2.5 hours I did everything from force the bouncers to carry me out of the building TWICE, start a chant of "REFUND", converse with the owner regarding a refund, converse with the police officers regarding the legality of evicting people from a paid entry event without a refund, telling jokes, serenading a woman police officer that played tough guy (because it was the most opposite of what she was expecting), and generally playing circus sideshow clown. I kept 400 people entertained for 2.5 hours. It was very demanding both physically and mentally. During my escapade the lights came on for the building next door and it was quite apparent that the power was restored to the area despite the fact that management insisted that it was not. The croud got wind of the power situation and got antsy. I conversed with the police regarding a fraud issue regarding charging admission and refusing to render services. They responded that it was a civil issue and would have to be heard by the civil court. I educated them regarding the fact that there is a distinction between failure to provide and refusal to provide services. So I guess in my case we'd already paid to dance and it was the piper who had to play. The show went on. We were all readmitted. The cops went away.
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law bending and mending
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On 12/5/2003
Dave G
wrote in from
(207.69.nnn.nnn)
WOW!! 8 wheels on 2 trucks?? Musta used long axles! We all know what you meant tho(with-out correcting it)
Lenny can testify to the benefits of being respectful to the authorities, He came down for a visit July 4th weekend and skated at one of my favorite (illegal) spots just 1/4 mile from my house.. I'd been skating there illegally for quite sometime and it has gone from having my cones kicked over by the mean chief ranger to having an understanding w/ the rest that I can use this highly illegal turf as long as I skidadle prior to operational hours! Lenny got to witness a cute lil' ranger telling us it was time to pack up and leave after "just one more run" To her drooling over the Bozi wedge nose w/ 92 mm fly wheels in the back of the van! We picked up our cones and enjoyed watching ranger Pam skate 'round on a longboard w/ her uniform on (complete with the Smokey the Bear Hat) The best thing was the smile she was wearing and still does everytime I frequent the forbidden land! The Rangers say the like watching me run cones there..But to be very discreet and only during certain hours.. The liability is a big thing for the Federal Govt. whom owns it (yes w/ my tax payers money) But Laws are Laws and I assured them I would take responsibility for my actions and treat all who pass by w/ respect and gratitude..
So I dislocated my elbow in a major way, missed out on 50% of my earnings this year due to that single injury..
Hey who do I contact 'bout suing those beaurocrats?? After all it was on "public" property!!
Somebody needs to pay for my actions!
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Various
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On 12/5/2003 Sketchmaster
wrote in from
(4.22.nnn.nnn)
Brady: I'm new to this page. I mostly stick to the technical pages. What are you getting at? The "correction" you did to my post is incorrect. I phrased it correctly.
Chewning: Do you remember Lonnie Toft? He used to ride 8 wheels on two trucks. I had a calendar a long time ago that had him doing a 5-0 or something where he was coming out of the bowl and you got a good gander at the whole affair.
Palmer: A real-time conversation where I could immediately inform people that they had misunderstood my intent would have been better. As it stands now a few people have misunderstood me. We are all spending way more time away from this forum than we are spending at the forum and our opinions are being formed during the entire day. People then get back on the page and vent their further ideas that they developed in their own mind away from the conversation. I agree with 90%+ of what those who are complaining about my post have to say. However, most of the complaints are not waged against what my actual argument was but against faulty perceptions of what my intended argument was. Perhaps I should have phrased my postulations differently. Chewning covered most of my intent in a recent post that is in list form and has all concepts distinctly separated. Fewer people will probably find disagreement with his post. I wrote my post much more casually, which I thought was more appropriate for this forum. I was wrong to do so. I live up to my decisions. If you followed the entire thread in question you would see that I am well aware and am also informing others that following the line of telling the cops to leave you alone when you are not commiting a crime or tort is going to land you in court. Many consider court to be the end of the road; Something that they never want to see first hand. In many instances it is just the beginning to be followed by victory or enlightening discoveries in defeat. I never advocated telling the cops to f*ck themselves while a magnum was screwed into your ear. This was a reaction to my comments by someone else who also did not read and/or understand my initial comment on the subject. I'm not bitching about anything and regarding breaking the law: My point is that you are not to break the law but to disregard illegal perversions of the law or administrative enforcement that has no basis in law. This concept is evidently foreign to most here and a misunderstanding of this assertion is what rooted conflict between me and two others here on the forum. I do occaisionally force such challenges into the courts and have had both good days and bad days. I haven't had this kind of success myself but I do know someone that got a section of USC 922R struck and I have spoken to lawyers that are working on getting other pieces of USC 922R struck.
For those who are unfamiliar with the term "struck": It's when a court makes a judicial decision that has the effect of repealing a law or a portion thereof.
To someone else who's post I can no longer find regarding the status of a skate with respect to its legal relationship with the riding surface: This is going to vary widely by area and you are going to have to pull penal codes and state law for your jurisdiction but often it is the matter of the sole of the foot meeting the ground to provide propulsion that will qualify you as a pedestrian.
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How not to get arrested
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On 12/5/2003 jg
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
Trespassing- I think it is fair to say that all of us have skateboarded at one time or another where we shouldn't. I learned to skateboard in an area where skateboarding was forbidden. I learned in the lobby of an apartment building wearing at 3am every night. No one to collide with, not cars to contend with, no cops, and a wipe out consisted of sliding 30 feet in Pj's on marble and dusting yourself off.
Police are there for public protection- including your own. While I have been booted by police for setting slalom courses, I always respect them and leave immediately. Usually you can come back another day. Likely it will be a new cop who busts you again- and gives you another warning. If you argue with the first cop- he'll be sure to tell all the other cops about his run in with you at the end of the shift,,,and the "2nd" time you get busted that "new cop" has already heard about you, already knows you were warned the first time, and is likely to haul your butt away in cuffs.
It helps to know who has been skating where. If the pool you are skating at was busted by Police yesterday you are asking for cuffs if you go skate there today. Skate there 2 months from now and likely you'll just get a warning.
I get busted all the time for setting slalom courses here in the North East. Everytime I get busted I ask the cops if there are any safety issues I should have been more careful about. The cop might tell me I set too close to the corner, set too close to a drive way etc...(info for me to give him less ammo for next time). How I have avoided arrest is simple. If I get busted at a slalom spot, I go skate other spots and don't return to that same spot for 3 months. If police come by and they ask what I'm doing I tell them that I slalom here all the time- and usually just for 1/2 and hour or so. In the Policeman's head he is thinking "Well, I haven't had complaints before all during the past week... I guess this time the complaint must have been from someone new." Half the time the cops let me continue to skate.
After a while cops get used to you and so do the neighbors. Then the hassles stop.
(cops ussually roll up from a distance and watch for a while first- so skate way below your ability level and make sure it would look like you wouldn't get hurt if you fell)
If a cop thinks you could get injured and require an ambulance he's likely to bust you , but if you have a film crew- and paramedics standing by and your name is Tony Hawk- he'll have to wait in line for an autograph for his kids like everyone else.
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lawless
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On 12/5/2003 F#@k the police
wrote in from
(66.235.nnn.nnn)
I had a cop pull a dangerous u-turn to pull me over, make up a law and tell me he would cart me off to jail if i would skate there again because a local ordinace had made skating in the street a felony, I did a little research to find it isn't, it is a misdemeenor but not a felony, so then if these cops can lie to me then why do they get so pissed of when they get lied to? very hypocritical. Any how bring on the misdimeenor,
I'll still skate there cause i never liked pigs much anyhow
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Testing/Disobeying skateboard laws
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On 12/4/2003
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
(12.224.nnn.nnn)
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, though some have said I think like one. (They might have been insulting me?)
I can see a couple of scenarios where you might want to deliberately break the law or deliberately get caught:
1) You believe there is no law against skateboarding, you are doing it safely and courteously. If the police ask you to stop or go away, you MIGHT want to decline and see what happens. You might stump the police when they try and find a law that could apply. You might get a ticket for an unrelated offence (e.g. obstructing traffic). If they give you a ticket for a vehicular offence it is likely that under the law a skateboard is not a vehicle. One of the possible side benefits of getting a ticket and then beating it is that you can use that result in any future contact with the police.
2) The reward far exceeds the fine. Most of the fines for skateboarding offences are $25 to $50 That might be worth the price to skate the ditches in New Mexico. About the same price as a ski lift ticket. Factor in the probablility of NOT getting caught or NOT having to pay the fine and this might be a good deal. You might want to know the possible fines ahead of time.
3) There is a law against skateboarding, but you believe it is wrong. You deliberately get caught. You use any publicity or courtroom forum to fight against the law. I think this would be very risky ....
-- Pat
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When is a skateboard not a skateboard.
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On 12/4/2003
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
(12.224.nnn.nnn)
If you want to skateboard in New York, and you don't want to get a ticket for skateboarding, you could do one or several modifications so it is no longer a skateboard:
Fix one truck so it only turns with, say, the front truck.
Mount a third or fourth truck.
Mount more than 4 wheels.
(5) The term "skateboard" shall mean a device consisting of a platform, usually curved upwards at each end, to which are mounted or permanently attached two swiveling frames, each of which is used to support and guide a pair of small wheels, which device glides or is propelled by means of human foot or leg power.
-- Pat Chewning
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More Portland Oregon Law
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On 12/4/2003
Pat Chewning
wrote in from
(12.224.nnn.nnn)
A couple of interesting sections of the Portland law. I especially like section H where the lawyers recognize that imperfections in the street might open them up for lawsuits from skateboarders. -- I have not seen any evidence that the streets are being resurfaced to be skateboard-friendly.
E. Persons using roller skates, including in-line skates, skateboards, scooters, or other similar devices powered exclusively by human power upon any street, sidewalk or premises open to the public shall be subject to the provisions applicable to and shall have the same rights and duties as the driver of a bicycle as provided by the Oregon Vehicle Code, except when those provisions by their very nature can have no application. The penalty for failing to follow the rules of this subsection shall be a maximum fine of $25.
H. Before this ordinance takes effect, the Portland Department of Transportation shall consult with the Bureau of Risk Management to minimize claims resulting from defects in City streets.
I. The Council directs PDOT staff to meet with members of the Police Bureau’s traffic safety division to recommend and designate "preferred skating routes" in the downtown core area as well as throughout the rest of the City. PDOT will report these recommendations back to Council by March 1, 2001. Signage and informational materials will be prepared for distribution by April 1, 2001.
More skateboard city laws available at:
http://www.pegasusflyers.org/law/statcity.htm
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harumph
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On 12/4/2003 snoball
wrote in from
(68.200.nnn.nnn)
well now that didn't go well at all did it?
CDF
so if this doesn't work then that's 2 strikes...
wait..i might've used up all my strikes by now...
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laws
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On 12/4/2003 snoball
wrote in from
(68.200.nnn.nnn)
I think many of the problems regarding the defining
of laws and implementation of said law ( or ordinance )
would not be such a burden if we all just start right here:
CDF
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What went on in court
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On 12/4/2003 John Gilmour
wrote in from
(207.172.nnn.nnn)
Arab,
In court for these things was the issue debated
- skateboarding
or
-trespassing?
As for the taxpayer defense- it is possible to be trespassing on public property. For instance riding a bicycle in a public library will likely get you in trouble as the library was not designated for use as a bicycle throughfare and is deemed for pedestrian use only. Walking along a freeway- though a public throughfare, is illegal in many states, even if walking on the grass.
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...thanks.
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On 12/4/2003
adam t.
wrote in from
(208.186.nnn.nnn)
Thanks Groff. Take all of your stories and cut and paste them into a book publishing program, use your contacts and do it. You are already doing the work. It will be successful.
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yo sketchmaster
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On 12/4/2003 Brady
wrote in from
(68.158.nnn.nnn)
How long have you been visiting these forums?
"If someone really feels the need to burn me then do so but make sure you're actually responding to something I said (with) some lame extrapolation that has nothing to do with my intent."...would be more apropo
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Brady reminds me...
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On 12/4/2003
Lenny
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
When I was in college, the city cops told us skating was illegal in town, take it to campus. Campus cops said that skating was illegal on campus, take it to town. Some were jerks, some were not. My senior year, one of the biggies on the campus security dept. finally said "I'm walking THIS way. If you continue THAT way, I can't see you."
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Props to Arab and Palmer
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On 12/4/2003
Lenny
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
The topic pretty much says it; so...
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2 cities/2 laws
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On 12/4/2003
Brady
wrote in from
(68.158.nnn.nnn)
Two differant cities side by side, and 2 differant laws...
In Hollywood, it is illegal to skate on the side walks.
In Ft Lauderdale, it is illegal to skate in the streets.
Usually I have no problems with cops while I`m skateboarding but I have received tickets in both cities for skateboarding. In Hollywood, it was for riding my 44" Fibreflex on the beach boardwalk. In Ft Laud, it was for bombing the Sunrise Blvd bridge over the intracoastal waterway on my 44" No Ka Oi. Both times, a $50 ticket.
Usually a smile sends them on thier way, but not always ;-)
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LAW
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On 12/4/2003
PALMER
wrote in from
(64.12.nnn.nnn)
LAWS ARE JUST THAT, LAWS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH A LAW THEN DISOBEY IT. BUT BE PREPARED TO LIVE UP TO THE RESULTS. WITHOUT BITCHING ABOUT IT OR THE PERSON ENFORCING IT.
PALMER
BLR
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