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| Misc Equipment (2108 Posts)
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Pro's
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On 10/14/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(24.48.nnn.nnn)
Hey Carver,
I appericiate your thoughts. The Skate-off! testing is a work in progress.
So far we have two basic scenarios that we are working with... the first is our offical test rides and the second is the proposed "open house"
My intention with the open house is to provide regular joe's the opportunity to receive some "instruction" from the pro's. It would be like having chaput show up to give speedboard lessons, or clapton showing up to give guitar lessons (ok, maybe not clapton, but nugent or bobo) Plus, the factory riders will hopefully be able to bring more decks for us to try out!
That's why I have made an open invitation to all who are willing to drive to the AV, to show up and skate! There will be lots of boards to ride, so that people can make up their own minds about what they like. I will tabulate the responses of everyone who shows up... but those results won't impact the end result of the series.
All four of these set-ups are completly different and if local shops carried these, then this type of testing would be redundant. But the shops within 60+ miles of my house don't have ANY of them... so I am hoping that by having a large cross section of guys riding/testing them, that some good info can be shared with prospective buyers.
If you can make it to the open house, I would really like to get your input on the rides too! HR
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Skate off
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On 10/14/2002 Carver
wrote in from
(66.167.nnn.nnn)
If you really need to have the "team riders" show how their boards are to be ridden, doesn't that seem kinda ridiculous? With any of these boards, you should be able to pick one up at your local shop and start riding immediately.
That's almost as bad as having an artist explain the punchline of his comic strip.
Your test was to find a good off season cross trainer for snowboarding, correct? Ease of use and learning curve should definitely be considered. If you have to spend days on one of these boards just to get to the point of being able to cross-train for snowboarding on it, I'd rather just spend more time on the slopes getting drilled for real, you know what I mean?
And, if these guys from Carvebord or Freeboard have been riding their boards for any length of time, of course they are gonna squash your test riders on the other boards being that they are new to all the rides, right?
Just a few thoughts.
carver
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Skate-off! Day 1 pics
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On 10/12/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Day 1 of the official testing went very well! Here's the pics:
Skate-off! Day 1 Pics
I'll be posting up the results as soon as I get the feedback form back from one rider.
I personally had a great time with the Tierney and the Flowlab DCS42... the Freebord is still giving me fits!
Much, much more to come! HR
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freebord
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On 10/12/2002 scrub
wrote in from
(66.134.nnn.nnn)
In regards to PSR's post, its clear he has experience and an understanding for most of these boards, but what he says about freebord should be corrected:
"I'd like to note that the Freeboard does what my beginner classes do,which is sideslip,not carve.However,knowing that sliding is a means (and an art form unto itself!) of slowing oneself on skateboards,and is a familiar move for snowboarders as well,I guess it's got to be included.It dosen't CARVE very well,but is still a noteworthy attempt to simulate snowboarding moves."
The simulated edges on a freebord can slide, and much of the early freebord footage shows riders sideslipping all the way down the hill, so its very reasonable that he thniks freebord can't carve, but really it can. The more weight you apply to your edges, the more they take over and grip the ground. This is very similar to "holding an edge" on the groomed runs, and requires similar technique (bent knees, even weight distribution, parrallel shoulders, and lots of lean) I can carve a circle and keep riding, drag my hands on carves, and hold turns with little or no slide at over 30 mph (with or without tucking and railgrabbing) Granted it does not carve as deeply as these other boards.
In addition to that, you have the sliding which allows for total snowboarding simulation, awesome manueverability when bombing residential streets, you can actually obey the stop signs if u want. And the 'artful' side of sliding is coming out with huge drawn out coleman slides and some of the fastest slashing on pavement.
Discounting the fb after trying it briefly is like saying 'screw this' after your first painful and humiliating snowboarding outing. And getting from that point to ripping hard is all about EDGE CONTROL, which i would say freebord reinforces and simulates very well, with a little dedication and practice.
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Skate-off!
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On 10/11/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Looks like we'll be shooting for saturday the 26th of this month... carveboard should be there... also heard from a freebord team member who is interested in coming too.
If your interested... shoot me an e... at the very least, it'll be a good time to get some instruction from their factory riders.
I'll have flowlab and tierney boards there for anyone wanting to ride them... HR
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Skate-off!
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On 10/10/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(24.48.nnn.nnn)
The Carveboard guys will more than likely be coming up to the high desert area saturday after this... Steve A, their demo guy, will be bringing along at least 6 set ups for the various riders who will be there.
I would like to extend and open invitation to anyone who would like to come try these, the flowlabs, and the tierney rides boards.
I went and found some very nice hills to do the testing on... on the palmdale side of littlerock dam... Mt Emma and Chesboro area... nice speedboard practice hill and a very cool luge hill (2.1 miles 6 - 9% grade for most of it... lots of mellow turns and sweepers... should be capable of 70+ mph if you don't brake) Not sure I'll ride my luge on that day.
But anyone interested in coming out to try these boards and give an opinion... just email me for details... HR
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Carveboard Q
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On 10/10/2002 Skully
wrote in from
(216.250.nnn.nnn)
Iolus-Mensch asked if the Carveboard is the same board on the silverfish site. If you're asking about the "Hybrid Carver" video on silverfish, no, it's not the same as the Carveboard. Go to www.carveboard.com to see the Carveboard. They don't update the site too often, but it's still got good info.
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carving board???
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On 10/10/2002 tombone
wrote in from
(65.147.nnn.nnn)
What carving board has 2 big black wheels???
I saw 2 guys going over 45mph down a pass last week in Tahoe. It looked sick!!!!!
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Carveboard Q
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On 10/10/2002 Iolus-Mensch
wrote in from
(65.94.nnn.nnn)
I`ve seen lots of talk bout the carveboard, but I`ve been wondering; Is it the same board as the one on the silverfish site? The one with the sneak peek video, that is? If so, where's a link to their website? I've been wanting to get some more info on these for a long while. neways, thanx for the help.
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more weird stuff
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On 10/10/2002 hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
spotted at skate on haight,
magnetron - magnetic shoes/deck
trikke - 3 sizes, the large one have huge 8" rollerblade-like wheels
hc
geocities.com/sk8sanjose
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update: Skate-off!
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On 10/9/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(24.48.nnn.nnn)
I am pleased to announce that Carveboard will be participating in the challenge!
Through my corespondance with Joe at Carveboard, I take it that his product is THE superior snowboard crosstrainer! Hands Down!!
This is getting better everyday! HR
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Another Crosstrainer possibility....
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On 10/8/2002 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
Check into www.loadedboards.com/ ,these look pretty cool,too.
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skate-off!
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On 10/8/2002 Carver
wrote in from
(66.167.nnn.nnn)
Skully,
If you dig the T-board and Carveboard, I'm almost positive you would be into the DCS. I think the Carveboard and T-board both kick ass for their carving ability. But, the DCS makes it more "skateboard" like. I contacted Flowlab about their boards and they directed me to a shop in my area that had a demo board. After riding it at the shop, I was convinced that I had to have one. One of the best things I did all year :) The countless number of hours I can waste walking back up my hill near my school and riding back down on the DCS are amazing. You can slide it around switch-stance and carve backwards - it's killer.
carver
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skate-off!
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On 10/8/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
PSR,
Thanks for the input!
I have sent an email to the carveboard people inviting them to submit an entry to the skate-off... hopefully they'll be able to rise to the occasion! HR
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Carveboard - Tierney
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On 10/8/2002 PSR
wrote in from
(216.114.nnn.nnn)
Hugh,I had tossed a suggestion out to a fellow snowboard instructor over on Bomberonline.com to step up to the plate and promote the Carveboard here as he's done on Bomber.It's definately a Carving Tool,able to crank out turns with pretty high g-forces.It is darned heavy though. I've gotten similar results from using decent longboards,(or stiff new-schoolers by putting the trucks on the kicktails)Seismics/Randals and Smokebombs. The Tierney is awesome for balance skills,and great for pulling off deep turns.Correct form is rewarded,and leaving your toes hanging off the edge will remove toenails. I like the fact that they come with a choice in tires,too. The decks still neeed some work,but aren't horrible. Flowlab has a great idea,but really took awhile to upgrade the wheels.I still think there's potential there that's untapped,but inline wheels will keep this product hobbled for awhile yet. The ED Economy!!! That deck,setup with the right trucks,and something like Flashbacks or Roadie Racers,and CARVE is what you get! Pumpkins are also in there,with HUGE camber profiles,just add flowing-turn trucks and sticky wheels,and HoLD On! The Landyatchz Mummy needs to be mentioned as well,as it does flow effortlessly down mountain roads with a nice pumpable flex,high grip by way of good dampening,and a 'correct' length that lets you play with turn shapes as well as your speed.There are others worthy of mention within the longboard companies we're familiar with that also offer good deep carves and can be used to crosstrain on.I'd like to note that the Freeboard does what my beginner classes do,which is sideslip,not carve.However,knowing that sliding is a means (and an art form unto itself!) of slowing oneself on skateboards,and is a familiar move for snowboarders as well,I guess it's got to be included.It dosen't CARVE very well,but is still a noteworthy attempt to simulate snowboarding moves. Bottom line for me has been this: I snowboard often with the intent of improving my Skateboarding,and I often Skateboard to improve my Snowboarding skills. It's the best of both worlds,and it keeps this 'old schooler' in competitive shape,and definately keeps me from ever being bored on boards.
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rollsrolls?
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On 10/8/2002
hc
wrote in from
(207.212.nnn.nnn)
i was check out the silverfish.cc review of the rollsrolls.
One guy (a snobrd instructor) posted under comments that he likes the effect of drifting out due to the lack of grip of the skinny wheels.
so last night, i took my r3/torsion setup and slap on my rollerblade wheels and did some low speed testing.
Guess what, it's pretty cool.
gonna play with it out some more.
(i remember mikez posting about sliding on rollerblade wheels, maybe this is a good way to get use to sliding? )
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Skate-off!
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On 10/8/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(24.48.nnn.nnn)
Skully,
I hadn't really considered the carveboard... I was under the impression that it was a "surfing" trainer... but I checked out their site and see that it is infact being marketed as a "snowboard" trainer too.
If anyone has a contact over there and wouldn't mind doing an introduction for me, I would be very happy to include their deck in the Skate-off if their willing to send out a loaner (as long as they supply a ppd return shipping label) HR
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Snowboard Simulator...
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On 10/8/2002 Skully
wrote in from
(216.250.nnn.nnn)
Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Carveboard? I have been snowboarding for too long to mention, and wanted to purchase a crosstrainer at the end of the winter season (spring 2002) I narrowed it down to the T-Board or the Carveboard. Flowlab could have been in the running if I could have gotten ahold of one to demo easily, but that didn't happen. Anyway, If you are looking for the ultimate, and closest to a CARVED snowboard turn, the T-Board is the best to simulate that. You can angulate the T-Board to the point of burrying the rails into the pavement (ouch!) which hurts even worse than booting out on a snowboard, for those of you that know what that means. Too much independant ankle movement on the T-Board will kill you, you basicly have to lock your ankles as if in a snowboard boot, and angulate the entire body to get the board to turn.
I would say the Carveboard is the next closest thing to a CARVED snowboard turn. One of the things I like about the Carveboard is the flexible deck. Getting a snowboard to work the way it should is all about getting the board on edge, and letting the sidecut and flex do the work of turning for you. On the T-Board, there is no flex, on the Carveboard, you can sink into a carved turn and feel the deck flexing beneath your feet a lot like a Snowboard. Another advantage of the Carveboard is large inflatable tires. Air pressure can be used to control the speed of the board, high preasure for the not-so-steep cruising runs, low pressure for the steep runs. The size of the tires is also nice in that they cruize right over most road hazards, heck you could probably run over small animals and not even notice. A Carveboard is also much easier to ride "out of the box" than the T-Board. Hauling the Carveboard back up the hill is more of a chore than with any other board I've riden though, It's a tank, weighing in at over 20 lbs, and you also need a lot of room in your car to haul it around, although it does fit nicely in a snowboard rack on top of the car though.
In the end I ended up purchasing a Carveboard, mostly for it's ease of use (my wife has only been snowboarding a year now, she can ride a carveboard, but has problems with the T-Board.) Next year I'll buy a T-board, then I'll have the best of both worlds. That is unless I get my hands on a Flowlab and decide that it's better than a T-board.
I personally have no desire to even ride a Freeboard. As "Carve" already mentioned, the lateral motion of a skidded snowboard turn is only important when learning. Once you learn to carve a turn on a snowboard, skidded turns become boring.
So how is that for my $.02? If you want the "Ultimate" cross trainer for carved turns, and the feeling of angulating the board to turn go with the T-Board. If you want a board that is a little easier to ride, and a little more versatile (but heavy) go with the Carveboard.
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skate off
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On 10/8/2002 Carver
wrote in from
(66.167.nnn.nnn)
The lateral motion of snowboarding is only important when you are learning to snowboard. Once you get past the basics the carving boards like T-board or Flowlab DCS are much better choices than the Freebord. Who wants to catch an edge on the asphalt? Who really slides down the mountain laterally once your understand how to use your edges to carve on snow?
my 2 cents.
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skate off
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On 10/8/2002 Rio
wrote in from
(24.165.nnn.nnn)
Cliff may have a point that it is the riders learned technique, for I do not know how to slide on a skateboard yet. However, in search for the perfect snowboard simulator, moving a snowboard in the lateral motion does not require such brute force required in sliding on a skateboard.
It is true that placing your trucks on longer skateboard decks brings you closer to a snowboards changing turning radius, because snowboards have a huge turning radius. But, that is part of the reason why snowboarding involves moving in the lateral direction. Quick turns and stopping without placing your hands on the ground.
Hughr, I think you should add Freebord's older model to the list, if you can get your hands on one (I think freebord stopped manufacturing those trucks since they switched to the Alpha trucks.) It is the one where you can convert it to a longboard, without using any tools. Both freebords that you have, have the same trucks. With the older model, it is easier to bust 360s, 720s, etc...on them, which can be done on a snowboard.
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skate-off!
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On 10/7/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Rio, Mark, and Cliff!
Thanks for the input guys! And Cliff, I will personally take you up on the lessons next time I see you... hopefully before Sandia next year!
I can relate to Marks experience! I have snowboarded exactly once in my life and was hurt and limping for many days! That is one tough sport! Hopefully this year we get some better so cal snow... if not, Marc DuPaul, here we come to mammoth!!!!
The Tierney arrived to day... rubber wheel on the back and urathane on the front... This board is different than the one I rode two years ago at the dump road.
I can ride this thing! Not ripping (yet) but carving and staying on as long as I desired... I was pretty happy!
Steve C was pretty impressed with it too (although he seems to have a pre-disposition towards the Freebord) and I had a hard time getting him off of it so we could go back to work!
The Freebord is still giving me fits... I can get it to go, but it's very awkward. I'll be working on that one!
Can't wait for the flowlabs to arrive (hopefully tomorrow)
For now, I have some pics of the two freebords, the tierney and a couple of riders with bios up... much more to come as it happens!
Skate-off! Update
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Cross training
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On 10/7/2002
Cliff Coleman
wrote in from
(209.179.nnn.nnn)
Hugh,
Send your friend to me after he tries all of the other decks. I'll then teach him to slide and until then he should not make up his mind. It is more the riders learned technique that will help for cross training than the board.
My 2 cents,
Cliff Coleman
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snowboard simulator
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On 10/7/2002 Mark
wrote in from
(199.46.nnn.nnn)
I've only been snowboarding once - a two-day trip. I'd say the best
way to simulate the feel of a snowboard is to ride a longboard
(something in the area of 46" length) on a wet street. A snowboard
will go just as fast forward, backward, or sideways, and you're
going to bust your ass trying, so this would be a near-perfect
simulation! : ) (Although I'm joking, there is much truth to this.)
Another way to simulate my snowboarding experience would be to jump
of the back of a motorcycle at about 30-40 mph. : (
I hurt for weeks after two days of snowboarding.
-Mark Colden
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skate off?
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On 10/6/2002
Rio
wrote in from
(24.165.nnn.nnn)
In my opinion, the ultimate snowboard simulater does not exist, or has not been designed yet. The only board that comes close is the Freebord.
Any snowboarder can tell you that when you're cruising down the slopes and you put more weight on the back end of the board while turning, you will flip the snowboard around, doing a 180. This characteristic of the Freebord does not exist in the T-board, Flowlab, or any other truck for that matter.
However, freebord does have its flaws. You can not carve as deep as you can on a snowboard, and it can be difficult to learn. You can carve deep in other truck designs, but they ignore the lateral motion, which is the most important aspect of snowboarding.
My skating background? I learned how to snowboard first, then freebord, then skateboarding with the typical trucks you guys speak of the most. I prefer the older model of the freebord, not the alpha trucks, the one with the adjustable castor, because the force required to move in the lateral direction in the FB trucks is less than the force required to move in the lateral direction of Steen Strand's newer model, the alpha trucks.
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skate off!
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On 10/4/2002
hugh r
wrote in from
(205.216.nnn.nnn)
Hey HC!
Under normal circumstances I would agree with you 100%... but for this series Steve and I are really targeting the snowboarders who may or may not have any real skateboard experience, but who are looking for some cross training in the warm times.
So far the "crew" is 4 intermediate snowboarders... one is a decent longboarder, one an experienced kick flipper, and two are novice skaters. And then there's me (I represent old fat guys with limited skills and who have lots of kids and too many bills and wives who like nice things)
I do agree that watching the pro's is worth doing! Then you are able to see what the boards are really capable of doing... no disagreement there at all... just a different direction than I'm shooting for... HR
PS And as soon as I get the snowboarders attention... then I'll spring "longboarding" on them! And that's something we can all use a little more of!
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